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	<title>Comments on: James I III</title>
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	<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html</link>
	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7937</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gary, (forgive the belated response)  You are better read than I am, sir.  Thanks.  Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, (forgive the belated response)  You are better read than I am, sir.  Thanks.  Grant</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7936</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2004 16:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear Popocurante, this is a very good point.  I wonder if its because family and neighbors have become less trustworthy or because we have become more exactly (or demanding).  Or maybe it&#039;s because, given the choice between the confinements of a trust society and the freedoms of an anonymous one, we &quot;vote with our feet.&quot;  Thanks for spotting the typo!  Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Popocurante, this is a very good point.  I wonder if its because family and neighbors have become less trustworthy or because we have become more exactly (or demanding).  Or maybe it&#8217;s because, given the choice between the confinements of a trust society and the freedoms of an anonymous one, we &#8220;vote with our feet.&#8221;  Thanks for spotting the typo!  Grant</p>
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		<title>By: pococurante</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7935</link>
		<dc:creator>pococurante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2004 15:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ah, the old Gesellschaft v. Gemeinschaft. But &lt;i&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; did individuals get broken out of these tribes? I suspect that smart, independent persons desert the trust model (Gemein-) because they see that the groups  in it, esp. family and religion, are not always/necessarily/sufficiently (pick one or more) trustworthy -- sometimes even without having personally been betrayed (whether out of empathy and/or fear for themselves). They see that groups are too vulnerable to conformity, mob rule, and bullying.
&lt;p&gt;PS. It&#039;s &quot;Hayek&quot;, thus &quot;Hayekian&quot;. I mention only because I was a bit confused at first; I thought you were referring to a Finn I&#039;d never heard of.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the old Gesellschaft v. Gemeinschaft. But <i>how</i> did individuals get broken out of these tribes? I suspect that smart, independent persons desert the trust model (Gemein-) because they see that the groups  in it, esp. family and religion, are not always/necessarily/sufficiently (pick one or more) trustworthy &#8212; sometimes even without having personally been betrayed (whether out of empathy and/or fear for themselves). They see that groups are too vulnerable to conformity, mob rule, and bullying.</p>
<p>PS. It&#8217;s &#8220;Hayek&#8221;, thus &#8220;Hayekian&#8221;. I mention only because I was a bit confused at first; I thought you were referring to a Finn I&#8217;d never heard of.</p>
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		<title>By: gary</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7934</link>
		<dc:creator>gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;No sooner have you gone over the wall than you find yourself lost in a thicket of brambles in a boot sucking swamp. The gators are waiting. The dogs are coming. Light is fading. You have lost your bearings and your way.&lt;/i&gt;
But of course.&#160; Recall Kafka&#039;s runner with a message for you from the dying Emporer.&#160; When he makes his way out of the palace, he is confronted with the vast market, outside of which is only the first ring of the city.&#160; I, however, am confident he will get here any minute, for he is Cool Hand Luke and can eat fifty eggs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No sooner have you gone over the wall than you find yourself lost in a thicket of brambles in a boot sucking swamp. The gators are waiting. The dogs are coming. Light is fading. You have lost your bearings and your way.</i></p>
<p>But of course.&nbsp; Recall Kafka&#8217;s runner with a message for you from the dying Emporer.&nbsp; When he makes his way out of the palace, he is confronted with the vast market, outside of which is only the first ring of the city.&nbsp; I, however, am confident he will get here any minute, for he is Cool Hand Luke and can eat fifty eggs.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7933</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pamela, thanks for your kinds words and your comments.  The Nin quote is perfect.  I have been hoping that some of the branding folk would drop by.  I think you&#039;re the first.  I do branding work too and I hope there will be something of here of value to the field.  As you say, brands and corporations are key players in the contemporary culture watch, and branding, always difficult, gets steadily harder as things get more dynamic and transformational.  We will have to raise the bar.  Please, more comments!  Best, Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela, thanks for your kinds words and your comments.  The Nin quote is perfect.  I have been hoping that some of the branding folk would drop by.  I think you&#8217;re the first.  I do branding work too and I hope there will be something of here of value to the field.  As you say, brands and corporations are key players in the contemporary culture watch, and branding, always difficult, gets steadily harder as things get more dynamic and transformational.  We will have to raise the bar.  Please, more comments!  Best, Grant</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7932</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1178#comment-7932</guid>
		<description>Patrick, thanks.  I guess I would like to fields working more together than in parallel.  Feels like we&#039;ve got a &quot;two solitudes&quot; problem, with economics and anthropology looking at the same problem without much cooperation.  You can hear in this post my frustration with anthropologists who believe their solitude to be self sufficient.  This seems to me naive.  Don&#039;t know if economists are inclined to look for help from the anthropological side, but as long as anthropologists refuse all truck and barter, why should they bother.  Thanks for this and other great comments.  Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, thanks.  I guess I would like to fields working more together than in parallel.  Feels like we&#8217;ve got a &#8220;two solitudes&#8221; problem, with economics and anthropology looking at the same problem without much cooperation.  You can hear in this post my frustration with anthropologists who believe their solitude to be self sufficient.  This seems to me naive.  Don&#8217;t know if economists are inclined to look for help from the anthropological side, but as long as anthropologists refuse all truck and barter, why should they bother.  Thanks for this and other great comments.  Grant</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7931</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anais Nin once said something like: we dont see things as they are; we see them as we are.  As a brand designer, marketer, and manager of the creative process of bringing a brand to market, its been interesting to watch the interplay and sparring of brilliant minds based in economics and anthropology. It is thought provoking to watch as you weigh, weigh in and digest theories with the intention of landing in a place where enlightenment, change, or agreement to disagree, has taken place.
Ive been a humble and interested voyeur, a self-proclaimed above-average consumer of goods and trends and culture who also believes I play a role in their creation, in the work I do. Yet, though I hate to admit it, I had never given thought to the theories of economists and anthropologists (though much thought to ethnographies) and the study of whether markets and incentives are human inventions and whether a new, emergent order should be left alone or defined.
But thats not to say these are not in play and not relevant to branding, because they are. We just go about our work trying to sort through the muddle and bring understanding to the thoughts and motivations of the consumers we target as our strategic value consumer, design for and market to. From my vantage point, I believe most corporations work hard (yet are not very successful) at trying to identify trends and study consumers in the hopes of understanding the needs and motivations of their most valued audience. Large companies often suffer from the chaos and lack of focus on innovation thats required to create trends, so they cannot control or manipulate change, but they can react to it and copy or leverage innovation as it makes its way down stream. I agree wholeheartedly to your point, Grant, that anthropologists need to take on the challenge of thinking about a culture that comes out of individual choices, by highly innovative individuals who no longer defer to any particular norm - because thats the world we live in today, we being transformational and dynamic individuals.
So I hope you soldier on so those on the front line of branding can be inspired by your brilliance and apply your work of making the miraculous a little more intelligible.  Hows that for incentive?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anais Nin once said something like: we dont see things as they are; we see them as we are.  As a brand designer, marketer, and manager of the creative process of bringing a brand to market, its been interesting to watch the interplay and sparring of brilliant minds based in economics and anthropology. It is thought provoking to watch as you weigh, weigh in and digest theories with the intention of landing in a place where enlightenment, change, or agreement to disagree, has taken place.</p>
<p>Ive been a humble and interested voyeur, a self-proclaimed above-average consumer of goods and trends and culture who also believes I play a role in their creation, in the work I do. Yet, though I hate to admit it, I had never given thought to the theories of economists and anthropologists (though much thought to ethnographies) and the study of whether markets and incentives are human inventions and whether a new, emergent order should be left alone or defined.</p>
<p>But thats not to say these are not in play and not relevant to branding, because they are. We just go about our work trying to sort through the muddle and bring understanding to the thoughts and motivations of the consumers we target as our strategic value consumer, design for and market to. From my vantage point, I believe most corporations work hard (yet are not very successful) at trying to identify trends and study consumers in the hopes of understanding the needs and motivations of their most valued audience. Large companies often suffer from the chaos and lack of focus on innovation thats required to create trends, so they cannot control or manipulate change, but they can react to it and copy or leverage innovation as it makes its way down stream. I agree wholeheartedly to your point, Grant, that anthropologists need to take on the challenge of thinking about a culture that comes out of individual choices, by highly innovative individuals who no longer defer to any particular norm &#8211; because thats the world we live in today, we being transformational and dynamic individuals.</p>
<p>So I hope you soldier on so those on the front line of branding can be inspired by your brilliance and apply your work of making the miraculous a little more intelligible.  Hows that for incentive?</p>
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		<title>By: John P.</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7930</link>
		<dc:creator>John P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great stuff!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff!</p>
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		<title>By: patrick</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/06/james_i_iii.html/comment-page-1#comment-7929</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m reallying enjoying your blog, Grant. If only there were more places like this on the web....
I have a couple unrelated, maybe even contradictory, responses to this piece.
The first is a suggestion of one way in which anthropologists, even those suspicious of economics qua panacea, could make it a useful tool.  One so inclined could use economics almost as an old-time miner used a pan when panning for gold. When encountering an interesting situation, such as the agreement made by King James, one could first attempt to explain the situation in simple economic terms.  But in most situations of interest to an anthropogist (e.g., not a simple exchange of pigs for corn in some virtual futures market), the economic explanation will be incomplete, leaving important aspects of the situation unexplained or incompletely explained. The identification and exploitation of these unexplained aspects of the situation is not a trivial task and will require careful study and judgement, but that&#039;s why computers make poor anthropologists (and economists).
The second comment is really more of a proposed truce. It seems, from your caricature, that some anthropologists are unhappy about economics muscling in on their turf. This is understandable, especially in light the expansion of the &quot;proper&quot; subject matter of economics led by folks like Gary Becker. They don&#039;t call it economic imperialism for nothing.
But I think viewing things in this way is a mistake. So what if an economist can give an economic explanation for every phenomenon we see in the social world. Nothing stops an anthropologist from giving a parallel exaplantion: which explanation is best depends on the purposes you have in mind.. why do you want this explanation? Or more importantly, for what? When I look at a bucket of water, a farmer can explain the water in one way: as an essential ingrediant in the growth of plants.. an input to his business. A biologist would see it in a related but different way, as a component to certain key processes (such as photosynthesis). A chemist would have his description, a physicist would have hers. Are those descriptions right? That&#039;s a question for farmers to argue with farmers and physicists to argue with physicists. But the key question for us is which is appropriate? Thats the place where we need talk between professions, where a blog can sit: at the interesection of anthropology and economics.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reallying enjoying your blog, Grant. If only there were more places like this on the web&#8230;.</p>
<p>I have a couple unrelated, maybe even contradictory, responses to this piece.</p>
<p>The first is a suggestion of one way in which anthropologists, even those suspicious of economics qua panacea, could make it a useful tool.  One so inclined could use economics almost as an old-time miner used a pan when panning for gold. When encountering an interesting situation, such as the agreement made by King James, one could first attempt to explain the situation in simple economic terms.  But in most situations of interest to an anthropogist (e.g., not a simple exchange of pigs for corn in some virtual futures market), the economic explanation will be incomplete, leaving important aspects of the situation unexplained or incompletely explained. The identification and exploitation of these unexplained aspects of the situation is not a trivial task and will require careful study and judgement, but that&#8217;s why computers make poor anthropologists (and economists).</p>
<p>The second comment is really more of a proposed truce. It seems, from your caricature, that some anthropologists are unhappy about economics muscling in on their turf. This is understandable, especially in light the expansion of the &#8220;proper&#8221; subject matter of economics led by folks like Gary Becker. They don&#8217;t call it economic imperialism for nothing.</p>
<p>But I think viewing things in this way is a mistake. So what if an economist can give an economic explanation for every phenomenon we see in the social world. Nothing stops an anthropologist from giving a parallel exaplantion: which explanation is best depends on the purposes you have in mind.. why do you want this explanation? Or more importantly, for what? When I look at a bucket of water, a farmer can explain the water in one way: as an essential ingrediant in the growth of plants.. an input to his business. A biologist would see it in a related but different way, as a component to certain key processes (such as photosynthesis). A chemist would have his description, a physicist would have hers. Are those descriptions right? That&#8217;s a question for farmers to argue with farmers and physicists to argue with physicists. But the key question for us is which is appropriate? Thats the place where we need talk between professions, where a blog can sit: at the interesection of anthropology and economics.</p>
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