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	<title>Comments on: Hollywood sequels: the cultural accounting</title>
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	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
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		<title>By: LK</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7388</link>
		<dc:creator>LK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>
re ennis&#039; reference to chwe&#039;s book, please note, that while ennis is rocking the blog with both style and aplomb, old school blog props on this account must go to &quot;miguel&quot; who made a cameo here back in june, during the tidal wave that was the economics of the bare midriff post. he referenced chwe&#039;s &#039;rational ritual&#039; in the following post:
&gt;&gt;
Grant,
I would like to point you to a book called &quot;Rational Ritual&quot; by a guy in NYU, Dr. CHWE. In it, he argues that there is something called &quot;metaknowledge&quot;. This means that for &quot;coordination good problems&quot; (these are goods that I only want to buy if and only if other people have them too) to be solved, there must be different levels of knowledge. For example, he argues that the single most important TV event that creates this metakonwledge is the super bowl. Apple faces a coordination good problem; i only want to buy an Apple computer if it is compatible with my friend&#039;s computers. So, Apple advertises in the superbowl. Why? Because when i watch the Super Bowl, i know i&#039;m watching it, but, and this is the crucial &quot;but&quot;, i know that millions of people are watching it, and, millions of people know that millions of other people are watching it. Hence, I am more likely to buy an Apple computer.
This fits with the Madonna fact you mentioned. Women saw Madonna, and they took that as a cue; but they also knew that other women were watching here, so metaknowledge was created. This is one way to view Madonna, as a catalyst of metaknowledge.
I am a Mexican student who just graduated from Boston University, and has plans to go to graduate school in economics at NYU.
Best regards,
Miguel Z.
Posted by: Miguel Zabludovsky on June 14, 2004 10:12 AM
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re ennis&#8217; reference to chwe&#8217;s book, please note, that while ennis is rocking the blog with both style and aplomb, old school blog props on this account must go to &#8220;miguel&#8221; who made a cameo here back in june, during the tidal wave that was the economics of the bare midriff post. he referenced chwe&#8217;s &#8216;rational ritual&#8217; in the following post:<br />
>></p>
<p>Grant,<br />
I would like to point you to a book called &#8220;Rational Ritual&#8221; by a guy in NYU, Dr. CHWE. In it, he argues that there is something called &#8220;metaknowledge&#8221;. This means that for &#8220;coordination good problems&#8221; (these are goods that I only want to buy if and only if other people have them too) to be solved, there must be different levels of knowledge. For example, he argues that the single most important TV event that creates this metakonwledge is the super bowl. Apple faces a coordination good problem; i only want to buy an Apple computer if it is compatible with my friend&#8217;s computers. So, Apple advertises in the superbowl. Why? Because when i watch the Super Bowl, i know i&#8217;m watching it, but, and this is the crucial &#8220;but&#8221;, i know that millions of people are watching it, and, millions of people know that millions of other people are watching it. Hence, I am more likely to buy an Apple computer.<br />
This fits with the Madonna fact you mentioned. Women saw Madonna, and they took that as a cue; but they also knew that other women were watching here, so metaknowledge was created. This is one way to view Madonna, as a catalyst of metaknowledge.</p>
<p>I am a Mexican student who just graduated from Boston University, and has plans to go to graduate school in economics at NYU.<br />
Best regards,<br />
Miguel Z.<br />
Posted by: Miguel Zabludovsky on June 14, 2004 10:12 AM</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7387</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1123#comment-7387</guid>
		<description>Pops, thanks, it&#039;s funny how often Hollywood needs to get rescued, it&#039;s like it &quot;locks on&quot; to something and this is the place of safety till the young turks rescue popular culture from their grasp.  But maybe this buys the &quot;native point of view.&quot;  Maybe we need to resort to a wider frame and see an inevitable cycle of insiders and outsiders.  And I believe, as I was arguing here, that eventually the insiders find themselves having to live with so much dynamism they begin to act like outsiders to, at least in so far as they cast the innovation net widely and take new risks.  Thanks.  Which scenario exactly did they embrace?  Grant
Ennis, thanks for the book title, its now on my must read list.  Your penultimate paragraph turns us all into social scientists making bets on where other will put their entertainment dollar.  In order to be corrected briefed for the next cocktail party.  Interesting!  Thanks, Grant
Kevrob, point well taken, there was some &quot;product testing&quot; here, but even a NYT bestseller makes pretty smaller numbers compared to what Hollywood requires to recover the investment, let alone make some dough.  But point well taken.  This raises the question why more best sellers dont make it to the screen, and why some of those who do do badly.  But good spot.  Thanks, Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pops, thanks, it&#8217;s funny how often Hollywood needs to get rescued, it&#8217;s like it &#8220;locks on&#8221; to something and this is the place of safety till the young turks rescue popular culture from their grasp.  But maybe this buys the &#8220;native point of view.&#8221;  Maybe we need to resort to a wider frame and see an inevitable cycle of insiders and outsiders.  And I believe, as I was arguing here, that eventually the insiders find themselves having to live with so much dynamism they begin to act like outsiders to, at least in so far as they cast the innovation net widely and take new risks.  Thanks.  Which scenario exactly did they embrace?  Grant</p>
<p>Ennis, thanks for the book title, its now on my must read list.  Your penultimate paragraph turns us all into social scientists making bets on where other will put their entertainment dollar.  In order to be corrected briefed for the next cocktail party.  Interesting!  Thanks, Grant</p>
<p>Kevrob, point well taken, there was some &#8220;product testing&#8221; here, but even a NYT bestseller makes pretty smaller numbers compared to what Hollywood requires to recover the investment, let alone make some dough.  But point well taken.  This raises the question why more best sellers dont make it to the screen, and why some of those who do do badly.  But good spot.  Thanks, Grant</p>
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		<title>By: kevrob</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7386</link>
		<dc:creator>kevrob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1123#comment-7386</guid>
		<description>Both &lt;i&gt;Shrek&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Gump&lt;/i&gt; were based on books.  The former a well-loved children&#039;s tale and the latter a novel that, published a dozen years before the film&#039;s release, was a &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; #1 bestseller.  The studios weren&#039;t exactly buying pigs in pokes.  Sure, Hollywood has made good &quot;properties&quot; into pigs&#039; breakfasts on more than one occassion, but can you imagine how these stories would have flopped if they&#039;d been pitched as original screenplays?  Just the fact that rights fees had been paid, and needed to be justified to the CFO would keep these projects moving, however slowly, through the circles of development hell.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both <i>Shrek</i> and <i>Gump</i> were based on books.  The former a well-loved children&#8217;s tale and the latter a novel that, published a dozen years before the film&#8217;s release, was a <i>New York Times</i> #1 bestseller.  The studios weren&#8217;t exactly buying pigs in pokes.  Sure, Hollywood has made good &#8220;properties&#8221; into pigs&#8217; breakfasts on more than one occassion, but can you imagine how these stories would have flopped if they&#8217;d been pitched as original screenplays?  Just the fact that rights fees had been paid, and needed to be justified to the CFO would keep these projects moving, however slowly, through the circles of development hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Ennis</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7385</link>
		<dc:creator>Ennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1123#comment-7385</guid>
		<description>Have you read Michael Chwe&#039;s book rational ritual?
First chapter on-line here:
http://www.chwe.net/michael/r.pdf
It&#039;s about the use of public rituals to solve coordination games and generate common knowledge.
There are movies you see b/c you want to consume them, there are other movies you see b/c you know everybody else will, and you want to be able to discuss it. That second class of movies are a social good, even if they&#039;re not an individual good.
You&#039;re positing that movies succeed or fail based on their appeal to individuals. I suspect, instead, that many hits happen b/c they can generate self-fulfilling expectations -- people go b/c they think everybody else will.
Why some movies succeed in this and others fail is something I don&#039;t have an angle on. But (and this is a funny thing to say to an anthropologist) instead of looking at individuals&#039; tastes, I would look at their expectations about each other, at the webs that connect them.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read Michael Chwe&#8217;s book rational ritual?<br />
First chapter on-line here:<br />
<a href="http://www.chwe.net/michael/r.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.chwe.net/michael/r.pdf</a><br />
It&#8217;s about the use of public rituals to solve coordination games and generate common knowledge.</p>
<p>There are movies you see b/c you want to consume them, there are other movies you see b/c you know everybody else will, and you want to be able to discuss it. That second class of movies are a social good, even if they&#8217;re not an individual good.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re positing that movies succeed or fail based on their appeal to individuals. I suspect, instead, that many hits happen b/c they can generate self-fulfilling expectations &#8212; people go b/c they think everybody else will.</p>
<p>Why some movies succeed in this and others fail is something I don&#8217;t have an angle on. But (and this is a funny thing to say to an anthropologist) instead of looking at individuals&#8217; tastes, I would look at their expectations about each other, at the webs that connect them.</p>
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		<title>By: pops</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7384</link>
		<dc:creator>pops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Once again we come back to Michael Eisner. There is an undercurrent of thought that says there were several promising young turks in the late 70&#039;s who could rescue the film business from its coked-out funk. Out of the pack Eisner was the only one who didn&#039;t die of an overdose or some other drug-related death.
Eisner brought the MBA mentality into play and reduced loss by micro management. Success followed. The upshot 20 years later is risk aversion.  This is only one subtext that was being played out last spring in the Comcast bid for Disney.
But *stuff* happens. Pulp Fiction and Farenheit 911 escaped the corral. I have been at no more than an arm&#039;s length from a couple of development types and both coughed up your $100 million risk scenario as if they were facing east towards Mecca.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again we come back to Michael Eisner. There is an undercurrent of thought that says there were several promising young turks in the late 70&#8242;s who could rescue the film business from its coked-out funk. Out of the pack Eisner was the only one who didn&#8217;t die of an overdose or some other drug-related death.</p>
<p>Eisner brought the MBA mentality into play and reduced loss by micro management. Success followed. The upshot 20 years later is risk aversion.  This is only one subtext that was being played out last spring in the Comcast bid for Disney.</p>
<p>But *stuff* happens. Pulp Fiction and Farenheit 911 escaped the corral. I have been at no more than an arm&#8217;s length from a couple of development types and both coughed up your $100 million risk scenario as if they were facing east towards Mecca.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7383</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gabriel, I take your point, but I believe we can take the &quot;high concept&quot; concept as a measure of risk taking.  For executives raised on genre, Forrest Gump must have seemed kinda nuts and I am betting it was tough to pitch.  I guess I&#039;m saying that the Forrest Gump concept probably wasn&#039;t, on first hearing, catchey at all.  That it made it through the 2 minute pitch procedure is a miracle.  But I&#039;m repeating myself.  Thanks.  Grant
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel, I take your point, but I believe we can take the &#8220;high concept&#8221; concept as a measure of risk taking.  For executives raised on genre, Forrest Gump must have seemed kinda nuts and I am betting it was tough to pitch.  I guess I&#8217;m saying that the Forrest Gump concept probably wasn&#8217;t, on first hearing, catchey at all.  That it made it through the 2 minute pitch procedure is a miracle.  But I&#8217;m repeating myself.  Thanks.  Grant</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Rossman</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/09/hollywood_seque.html/comment-page-1#comment-7382</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel Rossman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The interesting thing about your examples is not that they&#039;re unusual but that they&#039;re all high-concept. The premises are unusual enough to be adequately described in a sentence. It&#039;s a lot easier to pitch Forrest Gump (holy fool baby boomer Zelig) than to pitch Harry Met Sally (long dormant romance, but with really good writing). In certain ways it&#039;s easier to get both studio execs and audiences to buy into the reality of a catchy concept than the promise of a good execution.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting thing about your examples is not that they&#8217;re unusual but that they&#8217;re all high-concept. The premises are unusual enough to be adequately described in a sentence. It&#8217;s a lot easier to pitch Forrest Gump (holy fool baby boomer Zelig) than to pitch Harry Met Sally (long dormant romance, but with really good writing). In certain ways it&#8217;s easier to get both studio execs and audiences to buy into the reality of a catchy concept than the promise of a good execution.</p>
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