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	<title>Comments on: A Pixar generation?</title>
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	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7068</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7068</guid>
		<description>This is my 45 second response--
Oooh, Grant, what a good riff: Pixar and the Precious Children (the children of the upper middle class who are coddled and protected and so out of touch with reality that it makes your head swim) But you know, I was watching South Park with my daughter the other night, and I am thinking of the imputed expression.  South Park is about as far from Pixar as you can go in animation--well I suppose stick figures would be further--but I was thinking about how I, anyway, tend to &quot;read in&quot; expression to those fat flat little faces.
And the other thing I  think about are the cadre of the shadow or reverse  of the Precious Children--kids who are underprotected and undercoddled, kids where the parents aren&#039;t parenting or don&#039;t know what to do or cannot protect them from---
In fairy tales sometimes heroes and heroines do what they know they should not, because of the glamour or enchantment--the mixture of thrill and dread when you do something you know you should not, but you cannot resist that haunting call--
the gang enchantment and the drug enchantment and the bling bling enchantment  and the easy sex/booty enchantment
leading to the kids in court or dead.
You wrote of &quot;Is there a Ricky Williams effect? &quot;--well, maybe, but what about the shadow, the dark side of the coddling culture.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my 45 second response&#8211;</p>
<p>Oooh, Grant, what a good riff: Pixar and the Precious Children (the children of the upper middle class who are coddled and protected and so out of touch with reality that it makes your head swim) But you know, I was watching South Park with my daughter the other night, and I am thinking of the imputed expression.  South Park is about as far from Pixar as you can go in animation&#8211;well I suppose stick figures would be further&#8211;but I was thinking about how I, anyway, tend to &#8220;read in&#8221; expression to those fat flat little faces.</p>
<p>And the other thing I  think about are the cadre of the shadow or reverse  of the Precious Children&#8211;kids who are underprotected and undercoddled, kids where the parents aren&#8217;t parenting or don&#8217;t know what to do or cannot protect them from&#8212;</p>
<p>In fairy tales sometimes heroes and heroines do what they know they should not, because of the glamour or enchantment&#8211;the mixture of thrill and dread when you do something you know you should not, but you cannot resist that haunting call&#8211;</p>
<p>the gang enchantment and the drug enchantment and the bling bling enchantment  and the easy sex/booty enchantment</p>
<p>leading to the kids in court or dead.</p>
<p>You wrote of &#8220;Is there a Ricky Williams effect? &#8220;&#8211;well, maybe, but what about the shadow, the dark side of the coddling culture.</p>
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		<title>By: AH</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>AH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;(Thanks Grant for letting me know it didn&#039;t &quot;take&quot; the first time...]&lt;/em&gt;
One theme I&#039;ve noticed is the legacy of extreme peer pressure + absent or overworked families.  The result is that students are hypervigilant against any disruption of the group or the tribe.  For this reason they are inclined to dull the edge of all-out competition and innovation (perhaps a variant of the Tall Poppy Syndrome).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>(Thanks Grant for letting me know it didn&#8217;t &#8220;take&#8221; the first time&#8230;]</em></p>
<p>One theme I&#8217;ve noticed is the legacy of extreme peer pressure + absent or overworked families.  The result is that students are hypervigilant against any disruption of the group or the tribe.  For this reason they are inclined to dull the edge of all-out competition and innovation (perhaps a variant of the Tall Poppy Syndrome).</p>
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		<title>By: amoeda</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7066</link>
		<dc:creator>amoeda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7066</guid>
		<description>Now for a much less thought-out response to your &quot;Pixar Generation&quot; point. My instinct (and this is backed up by the most authoritive of traumatic childhood memories) is that schools and sports leagues can make all the policies they want to protect kids from competition, and kids will still compete with one another as a means of organizing and understanding their worlds, making choices and defining themselves. Perhaps schools without rankings and plays without stars will shape the expectations kids have of the institutions in their lives. But if those institutional structures don&#039;t jibe with the reality of the playground, i.e., personal relationships, I doubt that kids will recreate such institutions as they mature--in fact, I would expect them to rebel. On the other hand, perhaps that rebellion will not take the form of total repudiation. Often the goal of &quot;cossetting&quot; policies is not to eliminate all bouleversement (I agree, great word!) from life but to create &quot;safe spaces&quot; as complements to other contexts in life where competition is heated. Of course it&#039;s possible to overdo this, but still, this need not be an all or nothing parenting choice. (And if I ever get to raise a child, I certainly hope to send that child forth to both safe spaces and Thunderdomes.)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now for a much less thought-out response to your &#8220;Pixar Generation&#8221; point. My instinct (and this is backed up by the most authoritive of traumatic childhood memories) is that schools and sports leagues can make all the policies they want to protect kids from competition, and kids will still compete with one another as a means of organizing and understanding their worlds, making choices and defining themselves. Perhaps schools without rankings and plays without stars will shape the expectations kids have of the institutions in their lives. But if those institutional structures don&#8217;t jibe with the reality of the playground, i.e., personal relationships, I doubt that kids will recreate such institutions as they mature&#8211;in fact, I would expect them to rebel. On the other hand, perhaps that rebellion will not take the form of total repudiation. Often the goal of &#8220;cossetting&#8221; policies is not to eliminate all bouleversement (I agree, great word!) from life but to create &#8220;safe spaces&#8221; as complements to other contexts in life where competition is heated. Of course it&#8217;s possible to overdo this, but still, this need not be an all or nothing parenting choice. (And if I ever get to raise a child, I certainly hope to send that child forth to both safe spaces and Thunderdomes.)</p>
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		<title>By: amoeda</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>amoeda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7065</guid>
		<description>Before I get into your contentions about cotton batten kids, I must take issue with the aesthetic assumptions regarding Pixar. Your critique of computer animated cinema sounds like the cinephile counterpart to &lt;a href=&quot;http://rockcritics.com/features/galleryofrockism.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rockism&lt;/a&gt;  in music, i.e. the way rock fans paint electronica: &quot;It&#039;s all controlled by machines, so it&#039;s not spontaneous, it&#039;s not authentic, it&#039;s got no soul.&quot; This seems to rely on a pretty limited conception of spontenaeity in artmaking. Just because every frame of the movie, every rustle of hair, is there by design doesn&#039;t mean that was no spontenaeity in the invention of the story, the design of the characters, etc. Maybe the Pixar folks are just front-loading the spontenaity in the process and letting its effects play out and be magnified by the workhorse power of the modern CG animation shop, just as laptop musicians might invent a world of sound though a spontaneous, gritty process and then let that play out on the computer. In the best of these works, Pixar movies among them, that spontenaity comes through in the work and is often the key to its genius. And while Pixar&#039;s aesthetic is very slick, that doesn&#039;t mean that digital art can&#039;t contain grit. (Sorry, no time to find and link to appropriate examples.) I&#039;ll make my next point in a separate comment.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I get into your contentions about cotton batten kids, I must take issue with the aesthetic assumptions regarding Pixar. Your critique of computer animated cinema sounds like the cinephile counterpart to <a href="http://rockcritics.com/features/galleryofrockism.html" rel="nofollow">rockism</a>  in music, i.e. the way rock fans paint electronica: &#8220;It&#8217;s all controlled by machines, so it&#8217;s not spontaneous, it&#8217;s not authentic, it&#8217;s got no soul.&#8221; This seems to rely on a pretty limited conception of spontenaeity in artmaking. Just because every frame of the movie, every rustle of hair, is there by design doesn&#8217;t mean that was no spontenaeity in the invention of the story, the design of the characters, etc. Maybe the Pixar folks are just front-loading the spontenaity in the process and letting its effects play out and be magnified by the workhorse power of the modern CG animation shop, just as laptop musicians might invent a world of sound though a spontaneous, gritty process and then let that play out on the computer. In the best of these works, Pixar movies among them, that spontenaity comes through in the work and is often the key to its genius. And while Pixar&#8217;s aesthetic is very slick, that doesn&#8217;t mean that digital art can&#8217;t contain grit. (Sorry, no time to find and link to appropriate examples.) I&#8217;ll make my next point in a separate comment.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeCallMeTim</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7064</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeCallMeTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7064</guid>
		<description>Jason:
I guess I&#039;d argue that in your counter example, the NFL is acting like the government - putting in place  new rules that applied to all the franchises looks to me like governmental regulation for the purpose of structuring a market.
I don&#039;t think I was really saying much past the old adage from 20 years ago that no one ever got fired for buying IBM products - people minimize their risks all the time on an individual basis b/c of fear of the consequences of being wrong.  To some degree, the justification for bankruptcy protections is that we want people to feel free to take risks without worrying that they will literally lose everything.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason:</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;d argue that in your counter example, the NFL is acting like the government &#8211; putting in place  new rules that applied to all the franchises looks to me like governmental regulation for the purpose of structuring a market.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I was really saying much past the old adage from 20 years ago that no one ever got fired for buying IBM products &#8211; people minimize their risks all the time on an individual basis b/c of fear of the consequences of being wrong.  To some degree, the justification for bankruptcy protections is that we want people to feel free to take risks without worrying that they will literally lose everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ligon</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7063</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ligon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7063</guid>
		<description>Pixar is in competition to provide entertainment. If/when fully computerized animation becomes the norm, it will be competition that drives innovative studios seeking to differentiate themselves into producing realistic muck and mire into the final product. The human element will be introduced when people demand it as part of the competitive process.
&quot;In certain systems, all competition does is make people limit their risks; the cost of failure is too high.&quot;
I don&#039;t know that I follow this line of reasoning. In a similar vein to my Pixar comment, it was competition for audience that motivated changes to the NFL. It was precisely that the cost to all franchises was so high that changes occurred. I&#039;m struggling to picture the situation in which a lack of costs and/or a lack of competition would result in greater innovative strides.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pixar is in competition to provide entertainment. If/when fully computerized animation becomes the norm, it will be competition that drives innovative studios seeking to differentiate themselves into producing realistic muck and mire into the final product. The human element will be introduced when people demand it as part of the competitive process.</p>
<p>&#8220;In certain systems, all competition does is make people limit their risks; the cost of failure is too high.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know that I follow this line of reasoning. In a similar vein to my Pixar comment, it was competition for audience that motivated changes to the NFL. It was precisely that the cost to all franchises was so high that changes occurred. I&#8217;m struggling to picture the situation in which a lack of costs and/or a lack of competition would result in greater innovative strides.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7062</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7062</guid>
		<description>Brian, thanks, point taken.  I was most keen on the comparison between the animation missing from the technique and the generation.  Certainly some kids will retrain.  And they will find your classroom.  Or retrain in your classroom.  Thanks.
Keelay, yes, improv is the thing.  It&#039;s popularity is a good sign, and, perhaps, evidence that there will be retraining grounds.  Thanks.
Mumblin&#039; good point, all of us are products of rote learning and somehow escaped its icy grasp.  Thanks.
Dirk, precisely, kid culture is more hierarchical than the court of Elizabeth (I).  Thanks.
SomeCallMeTim: I&#039;m with you.  Some parts of the Dem culture is about spontaneity and bouleversement.  Long may it remain so.  If only they weren&#039;t so very nervous about the bouleversement of the marketplace.  Thanks.
Ah, nice one, perhaps that&#039;s it: the safety of the group.  Thanks.
Tom, don&#039;t get me wrong.  I dont wish for modesty.  As an anthropologist, I merely report it.  I&#039;m with SomeCallMeTim, bouleversement is better--or at least more interesting, usually.  Thank you.
Grant
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, thanks, point taken.  I was most keen on the comparison between the animation missing from the technique and the generation.  Certainly some kids will retrain.  And they will find your classroom.  Or retrain in your classroom.  Thanks.</p>
<p>Keelay, yes, improv is the thing.  It&#8217;s popularity is a good sign, and, perhaps, evidence that there will be retraining grounds.  Thanks.</p>
<p>Mumblin&#8217; good point, all of us are products of rote learning and somehow escaped its icy grasp.  Thanks.</p>
<p>Dirk, precisely, kid culture is more hierarchical than the court of Elizabeth (I).  Thanks.</p>
<p>SomeCallMeTim: I&#8217;m with you.  Some parts of the Dem culture is about spontaneity and bouleversement.  Long may it remain so.  If only they weren&#8217;t so very nervous about the bouleversement of the marketplace.  Thanks.</p>
<p>Ah, nice one, perhaps that&#8217;s it: the safety of the group.  Thanks.</p>
<p>Tom, don&#8217;t get me wrong.  I dont wish for modesty.  As an anthropologist, I merely report it.  I&#8217;m with SomeCallMeTim, bouleversement is better&#8211;or at least more interesting, usually.  Thank you.</p>
<p>Grant</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Guarriello</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7061</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Guarriello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7061</guid>
		<description>So wait, I don&#039;t get it.
Yesterday, you were arguing for &quot;as many birds as possible with one modesty shot&quot; or some such thing.  Sounded like you were pleased with that development.
Me, I&#039;m betting on sex.
Today, you&#039;re despairing for the loss of the spontaneous fringe.
The unintended consequence of the kind of animation you&#039;re describing is a loss of humanity, the sticky, damp stuff that we live with.  In graduate school, a professor once said, &quot;where there&#039;s life, there&#039;s slime.&quot;  Not in PixarWorld, there&#039;s not.
Me, I&#039;m betting on slime.
And, heading for Paris for Thanksgiving...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So wait, I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>Yesterday, you were arguing for &#8220;as many birds as possible with one modesty shot&#8221; or some such thing.  Sounded like you were pleased with that development.</p>
<p>Me, I&#8217;m betting on sex.</p>
<p>Today, you&#8217;re despairing for the loss of the spontaneous fringe.</p>
<p>The unintended consequence of the kind of animation you&#8217;re describing is a loss of humanity, the sticky, damp stuff that we live with.  In graduate school, a professor once said, &#8220;where there&#8217;s life, there&#8217;s slime.&#8221;  Not in PixarWorld, there&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>Me, I&#8217;m betting on slime.</p>
<p>And, heading for Paris for Thanksgiving&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ah</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7060</link>
		<dc:creator>ah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7060</guid>
		<description>One theme I&#039;ve noticed is the legacy of extreme peer pressure + absent or overworked families.  The result is that students are hypervigilant against any disruption of the group or the tribe.  For this reason they are inclined to dull the edge of all-out competition and innovation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One theme I&#8217;ve noticed is the legacy of extreme peer pressure + absent or overworked families.  The result is that students are hypervigilant against any disruption of the group or the tribe.  For this reason they are inclined to dull the edge of all-out competition and innovation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2004/11/a_pixar_generat.html/comment-page-1#comment-7059</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=1078#comment-7059</guid>
		<description>Grant, whenever you put a number of kids together in the same place, you end up with rivalry, competition, conflict, rankings, and certainly also range of other outcomes. Nothing schools are anyone else can do will ever chance this. In fact, I believe one can make a good argument that the pressures on kids to own certain status goods, or to wear certain clothes, are larger now than they used to be in the past. So taking a wee bit of pressure of them may not even be a bad idea.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant, whenever you put a number of kids together in the same place, you end up with rivalry, competition, conflict, rankings, and certainly also range of other outcomes. Nothing schools are anyone else can do will ever chance this. In fact, I believe one can make a good argument that the pressures on kids to own certain status goods, or to wear certain clothes, are larger now than they used to be in the past. So taking a wee bit of pressure of them may not even be a bad idea.</p>
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