Comments on: Brands: fresh and frozen

By: Evelyn Rodriguez

Evelyn Rodriguez — Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:21:18 +0000

Apologies for the late entry into the conversation. I've been on the road way too much of late.

I've posted my response on my blog:
http://evelynrodriguez.typepad.com/crossroads_dispatches/2005/06/the_openended_b.html

Bottom line, you're right Grant. And actually more people might say that Alex is a communist than fascist - but neither view would be correct. (See post.)

By: Steve Portigal

Steve Portigal — Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:28:01 +0000

I guess I wasn't suggesting that there was no information available about her, but that her "story" in the culture emerged in a strange way, with no bio (after pounding out hardboiled detective novels by the fistful), or no by-way-of-explanation affiliation (Jane Fulton Suri of IDEO), or no two-word description (management guru Tom Peters), she's just Evelyn Rodriguez. It's hard for the newcomer to get a handle on it, as a brand.

If your suggestion is "well, go look it up" then I haven't made my point very clearly. No one talks about her in a way that makes her story clear.

Steve, amused that the soaring-with-eagles intellect of GMcC would deign to take credit for the ham-fisted trotter poundings of simple-minded J.D. Roberts-quotin' SP or LK. I just *wish* I was smart enough to use a word like quotidian in here or something.

By: Patrick

Patrick — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:16:42 +0000

Alternately, you could just click on the "About" link on the blog or look here:

evelynrodriguez.typepad.com/about.html

It's not exactly a CV, but you'll get the drift.

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:17:54 +0000

Anonymous, I think that's a good point, that we are entitled to know something about the person we are reading. And so it is with some reluctance (and a good deal of pride) that I reveal that the author of Evelyn Rodriguez's blog is me. It's true. I should also point out that I ghostwrite all of the work that comes from Tyler Cowen and Virginia Postrel. Oh and instapundit, truetalk, and any thing that appears to be from the pen of LK and SP. This does leave me much time for the presidential speech writing, but W has been most patient. SO FAR! For all we know, you are ER and just playing with us. I guess my feeling is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And it's not as if ER is holding anything back. Thanks, Grant

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:56:56 +0000

Steve has a point – Who is this person? Not a hint of biographical detail on the blog. Or none that I could easily see! Am I alone in wondering what's up with that? Am I being asked to evaluate her opinions purely on their own intrinsic merit? Am I old-fashioned in asking – "by what authority…?" And wondering if this obscuring of identity – however innocent or well-intentioned – is ever so slightly suspect. Is this the future: "Never mind the source, feel the opinion?"

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 15:33:47 +0000

Steve, she is discursive, I grant you. And she engages with several topics at once. And on both these counts, she breaks the anglo-american rules of style. But I think there is substance here, I think, and a great act of ideas in progress, blog as intellectual reconnaissance vehicle, as it were. We are grateful for the reports and we devoutly hope the driver returns to us whole. Actually, there is a better metaphor, one that comes from her blog. I think Evelyn is always living in a Tsunami aftermath, aka our culture. I am grateful to anyone who is prepared to put themselves in harm's way.

I think the "bottom up" position fails to see that there are still lots of formative people and institutions, still a great big diffusion effect in effect in our culture. Slewing from top down to bottom up because to down no longer operates is just too easy and its certainly wrong. Thanks, Grant

Mish, thanks you very, very much. Your devoted son, Grant

Rob, I guess I end up in the middle here too. I do think Apple manufactures meanings in a consumer society, and it represents a particularly interesting experiment and someday someone will write a book about brands like Apple, Volkswagen, Snapple that shows them to be innovators of both form and content. (You know that something interesting is taking place when a brand makes an add that is simply mysterious to the mass of consumers: see the Nike bounce synchronicity ad, or the VW ad in which kids arrive at their destination and then leave again.) But as I say I dont want them building comprehensive images of me or my world. That would be presumptious of them and slavish of me to respond to. Of course, every brand aspires to a kind of commercial solpsism, (there is one brand, it's name is apple,) but I for one, thank god that this is overweening ambition that meets with punishment swift and sure.) The other, the older, the traditional meaning makers of church and state were not so well constrained even with lots of checks and balances in place. Thanks, Grant

By: Rob

Rob — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:57:45 +0000

I agree, Grant. The last thing I want is to have to think about a "higher purpose" before I can buy a pair of jeans. I think she's wrong about Apple, too. Apple isn't about a higher purpose, it's about quality.

By coincidence, I blogged about this very thing today:

roborant.info/roller/page/rob/20050607#apple_news

By: Mish

Mish — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:04:51 +0000

Really, really good one - thank you.

By: Steve Portigal

Steve Portigal — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:59:40 +0000

Is part of your response Grant to say that the meaning if brands is partly (or greatly) constructed by the consumers of the brand, rather than (solely) by the producers of the brand? If I understand you correctly, isn't that a key component of what Alex has been saying for years?

Instead of Pabst trying to force their counter-culture message down the throats of those who had co-opted it as a counter-culture beer (nominally slacker bike couriers in Portland), very much just let it be, and allow the success to grow where it finds root?

That's my take on Alex's stories and approach, be bottom-up and not top-down.

I have yet to crack the book (sorry) but from experience, other writings, and conversation, that's how I've understood it, so I wonder if the Evelyn-filter has repurposed some of his approach in a way that struck you funny?

By: Steve Portigal

Steve Portigal — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:53:41 +0000

I guess this is my Evelyn Rodriguez tipping point. I've seen her blog cited constantly in just about every corner of the web I inhabit (hmm, well not every corner) and can never get any mental traction on the person/the brand/the voice/whatever. She's sort of like Seth, people quote them both. But no one ever steps back and explains or analyzes them, you are just supposed to know who they are.

I have checked out her blog, and I can't get a handle on it; who is this person? What do they do? I want to understand the brand - what is it a producer of? What is the history of the brand? What makes it an authentic and credible brand? I'm not willing to invest the brain cycles to fully explore every touchpoint of the brand and decide for myself if it is authentic, I need some cues.

I can't find any cues. Who is she? What does she do? What has she done?

But I guess this tips it for me and I need to just suck it up and put her in my RSS reader (I was gonna construct some metaphor about on my radar but I couldn't figure out if she is on my radar now or she will be after this).

Alex, I've had hands-on experience with, so I'm good there.

But can someone tell me who Joyce Wyckoff is? She's probably in the ring beyond Seth and Evelyn - glowingly cited, but I can't get a handle on.

Sorry for the tangential comment.