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	<title>Comments on: the problem of involuntary empathy</title>
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	<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html</link>
	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4014</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4014</guid>
		<description>Grant&#039;s comment about disturbing negative influences sounds like a legitimate version of the parapsychologists&#039; claims that their powers don&#039;t work when skeptics are around ruining the vibrations.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant&#8217;s comment about disturbing negative influences sounds like a legitimate version of the parapsychologists&#8217; claims that their powers don&#8217;t work when skeptics are around ruining the vibrations.</p>
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		<title>By: jens</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4013</link>
		<dc:creator>jens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4013</guid>
		<description>two things (don not know if of value in this conversation):
a &quot;submarine-man&quot; myself i use &quot;echo-sound-reading&quot; to orientate in society. that&#039;s a great thing until you get to someone who functions  exactly in the same way as you do... that can come to a weird kind of vice versa scanning where you get no signals back - can be a funny sensation - as if you both do not exist.
- at university i shared a flat with a person of the same quality. it was actually quite terrible. when ever we were alone in the apartment there was a terribly weird kind of all-consuming atmosphere. we learnt to get along by always having a third topic to speak about. so we never really communicated directly - but always over art, cinema, theory etc... and eventually both looked for alternative housing.
the other thing:
i had a terribly impressive and really nice sensation of being scanned when swimming with dolphins once.
and i had a similar sensation when giving a speech to an audience in china in english. the audience usually understands english good or not so good - but it always seems to me as if they all are trying to read you beyond (or instead of) the word - they are trying to feel  the speakers substance in order to judge him.
...
to come to the point now:
speaking from my own experience: ritualized communication - or introducing rituals into the communication - is a good way for empathic people to communicate in possibly difficult situations
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>two things (don not know if of value in this conversation):</p>
<p>a &#8220;submarine-man&#8221; myself i use &#8220;echo-sound-reading&#8221; to orientate in society. that&#8217;s a great thing until you get to someone who functions  exactly in the same way as you do&#8230; that can come to a weird kind of vice versa scanning where you get no signals back &#8211; can be a funny sensation &#8211; as if you both do not exist.<br />
- at university i shared a flat with a person of the same quality. it was actually quite terrible. when ever we were alone in the apartment there was a terribly weird kind of all-consuming atmosphere. we learnt to get along by always having a third topic to speak about. so we never really communicated directly &#8211; but always over art, cinema, theory etc&#8230; and eventually both looked for alternative housing.</p>
<p>the other thing:<br />
i had a terribly impressive and really nice sensation of being scanned when swimming with dolphins once.<br />
and i had a similar sensation when giving a speech to an audience in china in english. the audience usually understands english good or not so good &#8211; but it always seems to me as if they all are trying to read you beyond (or instead of) the word &#8211; they are trying to feel  the speakers substance in order to judge him.<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>to come to the point now:<br />
speaking from my own experience: ritualized communication &#8211; or introducing rituals into the communication &#8211; is a good way for empathic people to communicate in possibly difficult situations</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Guarriello</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4012</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Guarriello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4012</guid>
		<description>Much of what goes under the rubric, &quot;empathy&quot; is the kind of &quot;scanning&quot; you describe seeing in the abused little girl. I&#039;d call it &quot;heightened extraversion&quot; in that, for me, empathy has a deeper sense of emotional resonance with the other. That doesn&#039;t mean simply seeing signs of upcoming behavior, like the little girl seemed to be looking for, but an appreciation for the other&#039;s worldview, what it&#039;s like to be-in-the-world as the other is at this moment. &quot;Appreciation&quot; there doesn&#039;t necessarily connote acceptance or affirmation, but something that approaches what Wilhelm Dilthey meant when he used the word, &quot;understanding.&quot; This kind of understanding, I believe, is the subject matter of ethnology; a recognition of existential constructs and the lived-superstructure into which those constructs fit; their context. Empathy is a good first step in ethnology. Like you say, those who are naturally given to this kind of resonance have a leg up on those who need to fill in every little corner of the other&#039;s world, rather than being able to make the kinds of structural/relationship connections among existential fragments about which I believe Peter was describing in mathematicians. I&#039;m not sure if I know if it&#039;s necessary (I suspect it is) but it&#039;s clearly not sufficient in an ethnographer, right? My experience is that in order to arrive at meaningful insights, there are all kinds of higher order cognitive operations that the ethnographer needs to perform on the &quot;deeper&quot; (less articulable) insights that have emerged through empathy.
Sorry if that&#039;s overly long and arcane.
There was also an interesting piece in today&#039;s Times about the limits of empathy for psychotherapists. This link should work, but, with the Times, you never know: http://tinyurl.com/l4dct
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of what goes under the rubric, &#8220;empathy&#8221; is the kind of &#8220;scanning&#8221; you describe seeing in the abused little girl. I&#8217;d call it &#8220;heightened extraversion&#8221; in that, for me, empathy has a deeper sense of emotional resonance with the other. That doesn&#8217;t mean simply seeing signs of upcoming behavior, like the little girl seemed to be looking for, but an appreciation for the other&#8217;s worldview, what it&#8217;s like to be-in-the-world as the other is at this moment. &#8220;Appreciation&#8221; there doesn&#8217;t necessarily connote acceptance or affirmation, but something that approaches what Wilhelm Dilthey meant when he used the word, &#8220;understanding.&#8221; This kind of understanding, I believe, is the subject matter of ethnology; a recognition of existential constructs and the lived-superstructure into which those constructs fit; their context. Empathy is a good first step in ethnology. Like you say, those who are naturally given to this kind of resonance have a leg up on those who need to fill in every little corner of the other&#8217;s world, rather than being able to make the kinds of structural/relationship connections among existential fragments about which I believe Peter was describing in mathematicians. I&#8217;m not sure if I know if it&#8217;s necessary (I suspect it is) but it&#8217;s clearly not sufficient in an ethnographer, right? My experience is that in order to arrive at meaningful insights, there are all kinds of higher order cognitive operations that the ethnographer needs to perform on the &#8220;deeper&#8221; (less articulable) insights that have emerged through empathy.</p>
<p>Sorry if that&#8217;s overly long and arcane.</p>
<p>There was also an interesting piece in today&#8217;s Times about the limits of empathy for psychotherapists. This link should work, but, with the Times, you never know: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/l4dct" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/l4dct</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4011</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4011</guid>
		<description>Grant -- another 5* post.  Thanks.
A couple of tangential comments:
As someone who began life as a mathematician, I would say that the heads of most mathematicians are not filled with numbers, but rather with structures and relationships.  Most of modern mathematics (since the mid-19th century) has been about the relationships between abstract objects, of which numbers are only one, not very important, example. A person can indeed be a great mathematician and know next to nothing about numbers or number theory, and in fact never ever think about them.    Even in number theory, abstract concepts and their relationships are more important than actual numbers.
I wonder if the empathy with others you speak of is related to one of the human intelligences identified by Howard Gardner -- the ability to read the emotions of others.   What has always interested me is how many people I meet who lack another of Gardner&#039;s intelligences:  the ability to read one&#039;s own emotions.  Perhaps it the technology/IT circles I move in, but lots of people I meet are not able to diagnose their own emotional state, and one can often see their body language or other actions belying their words.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant &#8212; another 5* post.  Thanks.</p>
<p>A couple of tangential comments:</p>
<p>As someone who began life as a mathematician, I would say that the heads of most mathematicians are not filled with numbers, but rather with structures and relationships.  Most of modern mathematics (since the mid-19th century) has been about the relationships between abstract objects, of which numbers are only one, not very important, example. A person can indeed be a great mathematician and know next to nothing about numbers or number theory, and in fact never ever think about them.    Even in number theory, abstract concepts and their relationships are more important than actual numbers.</p>
<p>I wonder if the empathy with others you speak of is related to one of the human intelligences identified by Howard Gardner &#8212; the ability to read the emotions of others.   What has always interested me is how many people I meet who lack another of Gardner&#8217;s intelligences:  the ability to read one&#8217;s own emotions.  Perhaps it the technology/IT circles I move in, but lots of people I meet are not able to diagnose their own emotional state, and one can often see their body language or other actions belying their words.</p>
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		<title>By: Ennis</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4010</link>
		<dc:creator>Ennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4010</guid>
		<description>Grant - I missed the final question. Which is the  &quot;nasty little contradiction&quot; that you&#039;re asking if we&#039;ve &quot;found a way to break free of&quot; ?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant &#8211; I missed the final question. Which is the  &#8220;nasty little contradiction&#8221; that you&#8217;re asking if we&#8217;ve &#8220;found a way to break free of&#8221; ?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Gee</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4009</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Gee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4009</guid>
		<description>The reason the girl you spoke about was &quot;better&quot; than you is because her abuser had so badly broken her boundaries.  Keeping empathy in bounds is difficult for the listener- the therapist (me), or ethnographer (you).  Speaking only for myself, I found that occasional self-talk about keeping appropriate boundaries was useful.  The author Pia Melody was a good read for me.  Interesting post!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the girl you spoke about was &#8220;better&#8221; than you is because her abuser had so badly broken her boundaries.  Keeping empathy in bounds is difficult for the listener- the therapist (me), or ethnographer (you).  Speaking only for myself, I found that occasional self-talk about keeping appropriate boundaries was useful.  The author Pia Melody was a good read for me.  Interesting post!</p>
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		<title>By: olivier blanchard</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2006/09/the_commercial_.html/comment-page-1#comment-4008</link>
		<dc:creator>olivier blanchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=620#comment-4008</guid>
		<description>Silly question, but do you ever catch yourself adopting the speech patterns, accents, or mannerisms of your subjects (even a little)?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silly question, but do you ever catch yourself adopting the speech patterns, accents, or mannerisms of your subjects (even a little)?</p>
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