Comments on: Zune betrayal (brands behaving badly) http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: livingbrands http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3618 livingbrands Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:50:18 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3618 <strong>December's Top Blogging</strong> A bit of looking back as we move forward... Assuming a different answer Radical transparency Ethical responsibility Brain branding The long zoom Starting a business How to do better Buying presents Brand as mythology No more isolated incidents Marketin... December’s Top Blogging

A bit of looking back as we move forward… Assuming a different answer Radical transparency Ethical responsibility Brain branding The long zoom Starting a business How to do better Buying presents Brand as mythology No more isolated incidents Marketin…

]]> By: Vinay Rao http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3617 Vinay Rao Wed, 27 Dec 2006 08:31:03 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3617 Hi Grant Excellent Post. It was because of Apple's forced closed ecosystem that I've stayed away so far from iPods. Apple also forces you to buy accessories for in-room music reproduction (for the so-called music geeks, I can swear that a moto-rokr gives better earpiece sound reproduction than an iPod). I guess both MS and Apple were looking at the online music service more as a way of selling more expensive hardware, by supporting them with an easy purchase and transfer, rather than making money on music sales themselves. When Apple did it, they were solving a problem by making iTunes a place to buy songs easily. There are so many such places now, especially in India for local music content. 5 years later MS in doing the same thing, is not solving any problems, but is instead disincentivising people from buying the zune. An NXP MP3 player will reproduce any song with DRM , except those bought from iTunes. If MS instead positioned the Zune as a seamless integration device with a Windows PC, they would have had a much bigger market. Hi Grant

Excellent Post. It was because of Apple’s forced closed ecosystem that I’ve stayed away so far from iPods. Apple also forces you to buy accessories for in-room music reproduction (for the so-called music geeks, I can swear that a moto-rokr gives better earpiece sound reproduction than an iPod). I guess both MS and Apple were looking at the online music service more as a way of selling more expensive hardware, by supporting them with an easy purchase and transfer, rather than making money on music sales themselves.

When Apple did it, they were solving a problem by making iTunes a place to buy songs easily. There are so many such places now, especially in India for local music content.

5 years later MS in doing the same thing, is not solving any problems, but is instead disincentivising people from buying the zune. An NXP MP3 player will reproduce any song with DRM , except those bought from iTunes. If MS instead positioned the Zune as a seamless integration device with a Windows PC, they would have had a much bigger market.

]]> By: steve http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3616 steve Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:23:36 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3616 It is important to remember a few things... - most digital audio player buyers could care less about drm schemes as they don't buy online music in significant volume. The surveys I've seen on these devices tend to place online music 4th or 5th in importance. - it is the record companies who are driving the drm, not Apple or Microsoft. The plays for sure content was largely the same stuff (from the same source) on most of the services and is mostly a subset of what is available on the iPod. - PlaysForSure was very broken from a user experience standpoint - much more so than Fair Play. - It was amazing that Jobs got as much as he did from the labels. Remember this was the era of SDMI with severe hardware lockdowns and extremely restrictive schemes. The iTunes experiment sort of worked and now the labels are pissed that they lost (in their minds) a bit of control. Expect to see any new schemes be more restrictive (the Zune scheme is more restrictive than iTunes) - As mentioned before iPods and the competitors will play a large variety of cleartext files. If the consumer really wants choice they should only buy cleartext and send a message. (buying CDs is buying cleartext) - Sony showed the world something much more evil than the Apple and MS schemes when it put Windows rootkit attacking software on a large number of music CDs. It is important to remember a few things…

- most digital audio player buyers could care less about drm schemes as they don’t buy online music in significant volume. The surveys I’ve seen on these devices tend to place online music 4th or 5th in importance.

- it is the record companies who are driving the drm, not Apple or Microsoft. The plays for sure content was largely the same stuff (from the same source) on most of the services and is mostly a subset of what is available on the iPod.

- PlaysForSure was very broken from a user experience standpoint – much more so than Fair Play.

- It was amazing that Jobs got as much as he did from the labels. Remember this was the era of SDMI with severe hardware lockdowns and extremely restrictive schemes. The iTunes experiment sort of worked and now the labels are pissed that they lost (in their minds) a bit of control. Expect to see any new schemes be more restrictive (the Zune scheme is more restrictive than iTunes)

- As mentioned before iPods and the competitors will play a large variety of cleartext files. If the consumer really wants choice they should only buy cleartext and send a message. (buying CDs is buying cleartext)

- Sony showed the world something much more evil than the Apple and MS schemes when it put Windows rootkit attacking software on a large number of music CDs.

]]> By: Grant http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3615 Grant Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:44:37 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3615 Ethan, I only wanted to pointed out that Microsoft was refusing the trend. When everyone is created value by "letting go," the Microsoft idea of innovation is to demand that I buy all my music over again, a kind of grabfest on which Lafley would surely frown. Second, yes, what I liked about Playsforsure was that I could own in more or less outright and that I could move it around. Not that Zune is in place, this is no longer true. Thanks, Grant DC1974, the trouble with proprietary territory now is that the "open world" suppliers of music all now demand that I continue to remain subscribed and the moment I let this lapse, I loose my music. Call me old fashioned, but I like to guarantee access to the music I care about. And yes, I understand that all of this is to appease the record industry. Thanks, Grant Jason, I see what you are getting at, but here it is in a nut shell. Now that Zune has taken over Microsoft Music and other music suppliers have gone subscription, there is no one from whom I can buy digital music (more or less) outright. I would be thrilled to hear this is wrong. Best, Grant Ethan, I only wanted to pointed out that Microsoft was refusing the trend. When everyone is created value by “letting go,” the Microsoft idea of innovation is to demand that I buy all my music over again, a kind of grabfest on which Lafley would surely frown. Second, yes, what I liked about Playsforsure was that I could own in more or less outright and that I could move it around. Not that Zune is in place, this is no longer true. Thanks, Grant

DC1974, the trouble with proprietary territory now is that the “open world” suppliers of music all now demand that I continue to remain subscribed and the moment I let this lapse, I loose my music. Call me old fashioned, but I like to guarantee access to the music I care about. And yes, I understand that all of this is to appease the record industry. Thanks, Grant

Jason, I see what you are getting at, but here it is in a nut shell. Now that Zune has taken over Microsoft Music and other music suppliers have gone subscription, there is no one from whom I can buy digital music (more or less) outright. I would be thrilled to hear this is wrong. Best, Grant

]]> By: Clay Parker Jones http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3614 Clay Parker Jones Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:36:19 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3614 I suppose the issue is that you don't really dig copy protection for music that you've purchased. And I suppose I'm in the same camp. I get pretty twisted-about inside when I think about the idea that my Apple-sourced tunes are only licensed for 5 CPUs. I wonder what will happen when my music outlasts my computers, which it inevitably will. And it does piss me off that I can only put my music into a few different CD-burned playlists. But it still doesn't stop me from using, and loving, my iPod. Of course, there's still plenty of ways to come across/legally buy music these days. So the well hasn't dried up, as Jason mentions. I suppose the issue is that you don’t really dig copy protection for music that you’ve purchased. And I suppose I’m in the same camp. I get pretty twisted-about inside when I think about the idea that my Apple-sourced tunes are only licensed for 5 CPUs. I wonder what will happen when my music outlasts my computers, which it inevitably will. And it does piss me off that I can only put my music into a few different CD-burned playlists. But it still doesn’t stop me from using, and loving, my iPod. Of course, there’s still plenty of ways to come across/legally buy music these days. So the well hasn’t dried up, as Jason mentions.

]]> By: Jason Dunn http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3613 Jason Dunn Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:00:01 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3613 I agree with much of your basic premise, but you seem to forget about players being made by Creative, iRiver, Sandisk and others...and online stores such as Urge, Napster, Yahoo! Music, etc. All of them still work, you can still buy digital singles. The sky didn't fall in because Microsoft released the Zune. Jason Dunn www.zunethoughts.com I agree with much of your basic premise, but you seem to forget about players being made by Creative, iRiver, Sandisk and others…and online stores such as Urge, Napster, Yahoo! Music, etc. All of them still work, you can still buy digital singles. The sky didn’t fall in because Microsoft released the Zune.

Jason Dunn
http://www.zunethoughts.com

]]> By: DC1974 http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3612 DC1974 Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:18:01 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3612 Any MP3 or AIF file will play on an iPod -- so you certainly would be able to buy something from another source -- just not another proprietary source: like Real or Mircosoft -- and play it on your iPod. Finding the generic MP3 file type may be more difficult -- it does not allow the security protection that music marketers want. And so then you end up back in proprietary territory. Of course you can always buy the CD and then rip the tunes in MP3, MP4, AIF or Apple's own AAC and put that on your iPod. Anyone (Apple or Microsoft) that sells a player and operates a music download service is going to have a proprietary system in order to appease the music producers. Any MP3 or AIF file will play on an iPod — so you certainly would be able to buy something from another source — just not another proprietary source: like Real or Mircosoft — and play it on your iPod. Finding the generic MP3 file type may be more difficult — it does not allow the security protection that music marketers want. And so then you end up back in proprietary territory. Of course you can always buy the CD and then rip the tunes in MP3, MP4, AIF or Apple’s own AAC and put that on your iPod. Anyone (Apple or Microsoft) that sells a player and operates a music download service is going to have a proprietary system in order to appease the music producers.

]]> By: Ethan Decker http://cultureby.com/2006/12/zune_betrayal_b.html/comment-page-1#comment-3611 Ethan Decker Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:00:27 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=570#comment-3611 Grant, I always enjoy reading your posts. I've got 2 questions: I agree with Lafley that as far as brands go, consumers own (or co-own) brand messages. But as far as the product goes, owning your music is different from owning your Tide detergent. So, would Lafley have the same stance about 'letting go' of the formula for Tide (which would let customers copy it once they got it)? And second: was PlaysForSure such a good brand and good customer experience that it should've been kept? Cheers, Ethan Grant,

I always enjoy reading your posts. I’ve got 2 questions:
I agree with Lafley that as far as brands go, consumers own (or co-own) brand messages. But as far as the product goes, owning your music is different from owning your Tide detergent. So, would Lafley have the same stance about ‘letting go’ of the formula for Tide (which would let customers copy it once they got it)?
And second: was PlaysForSure such a good brand and good customer experience that it should’ve been kept?
Cheers,

Ethan

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