Comments on: Patrons or Pirates: the music industry has to choose http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics Thu, 17 May 2012 21:10:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Veronica Lane http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3409 Veronica Lane Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:36:52 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3409 Gets you to wonder, if the music industry dies in the woods, will anyone hear it scream? Veronica Lane Your Music Business Coach! http://www.MusicContracts101.com http://www.MusicIndustrySuccess.com http://www.TheUltimateRecordLabel.com Gets you to wonder, if the music industry dies in the woods, will anyone hear it scream?

Veronica Lane

Your Music Business Coach!

http://www.MusicContracts101.com

http://www.MusicIndustrySuccess.com

http://www.TheUltimateRecordLabel.com

]]> By: Louise Pierrel http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3408 Louise Pierrel Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:52:56 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3408 The interesting thing is that dedicated fans already are paying, this differentiated price according to commitment: On sites like Discogs and other e-auction houses… The problem is that the added value is happening on a secondary market where the original producer (and promoter) with the productions cost most likely will not benefit. The dilemma is the same as that of the art world, where an artist can denounce an early work as bad or un-important, but the sheer reputation of an artist later work will drive up prices just the same. I do think that the way musicians will handle this will show the way for other industries. Just as musicians where some of the first to use websites to gather hype around new products e.g. upcoming records (back in the day) and concert tours, and interacting with fans through blogs. The interesting thing is that dedicated fans already are paying, this differentiated price according to commitment: On sites like Discogs and other e-auction houses… The problem is that the added value is happening on a secondary market where the original producer (and promoter) with the productions cost most likely will not benefit. The dilemma is the same as that of the art world, where an artist can denounce an early work as bad or un-important, but the sheer reputation of an artist later work will drive up prices just the same.

I do think that the way musicians will handle this will show the way for other industries. Just as musicians where some of the first to use websites to gather hype around new products e.g. upcoming records (back in the day) and concert tours, and interacting with fans through blogs.

]]> By: mle.detroit http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3407 mle.detroit Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:30:14 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3407 I always thought the Coke proposal was backwards. If a can of Coke is usually 80 cents in the machine, on a hot day make it 60 cents. Goodwill and loyalty go up and I'd bet unit sales would double. Speaking of hot days, the air conditioner at my office went out one day in July. Under the flat roof, temperatures and bitching soared, along with much tramping and cussing up above. At 3:00, the building manager came around to our cubicles with a cardboard carton -- handing out Dove bars. That was 4 years ago...warm fuzzies still remain. I always thought the Coke proposal was backwards. If a can of Coke is usually 80 cents in the machine, on a hot day make it 60 cents. Goodwill and loyalty go up and I’d bet unit sales would double. Speaking of hot days, the air conditioner at my office went out one day in July. Under the flat roof, temperatures and bitching soared, along with much tramping and cussing up above. At 3:00, the building manager came around to our cubicles with a cardboard carton — handing out Dove bars. That was 4 years ago…warm fuzzies still remain.

]]> By: Mathew Ingram http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3406 Mathew Ingram Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:18:06 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3406 Great post, Grant. And I think Mark Schultz is quite right -- the type of model you describe already seems to be functioning fairly well with bands such as Pearl Jam, where most of the band's music (the live performances at any rate) is released in the form of unencrypted mp3 files. Hardcore fans then pay for a number of features and add-ons, including faster access to the mp3 files of concerts, better quality files, interaction with the band, early-release concert tickets, etc. P.S. The tribute/profile in your sidebar, the one written by your nephew, is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Thanks for including that. Great post, Grant. And I think Mark Schultz is quite right — the type of model you describe already seems to be functioning fairly well with bands such as Pearl Jam, where most of the band’s music (the live performances at any rate) is released in the form of unencrypted mp3 files. Hardcore fans then pay for a number of features and add-ons, including faster access to the mp3 files of concerts, better quality files, interaction with the band, early-release concert tickets, etc.

P.S. The tribute/profile in your sidebar, the one written by your nephew, is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while. Thanks for including that.

]]> By: Knowledge Problem http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3410 Knowledge Problem Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:48:14 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3410 <strong>Music Patrons or Pirates</strong> Lynne Kiesling Grant McCracken has a good post on the music industry's recent behavior toward its customers. Lately there has been some softening toward digital music and fair use. But, as Grant asks, how to capture value? Here's a thought.... Music Patrons or Pirates

Lynne Kiesling Grant McCracken has a good post on the music industry’s recent behavior toward its customers. Lately there has been some softening toward digital music and fair use. But, as Grant asks, how to capture value? Here’s a thought….

]]> By: Daniel Rosenblatt http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3405 Daniel Rosenblatt Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:23:12 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3405 Mark's comment that the pricing model may have determined the number of artists you could commit to makes sense. And maybe the way this could work now (to address people's wider and possibly shallower interest) would be to combine getting more money from a few people (via value added services such as Peter describes) with getting less money from lots of people: by charging little enough that one doesn't have to be very committed at all to buy: what if music were 25 cents a song? Would it be worth looking to see whether it was available somewhere else for free? Worth buying a single song rather than the whole album? I'm not sure you would sell 4 times as much of any individual song, but you might get people to spend as much or more on music in toto. On a related note, I'm not sure that business schools are correct to say that if you felt like you would have paid more for a record, then the record companies weren't fully realizing the value of the music: in the long run it seems good to leave you feeling happy & not ripped off or even having paid a fair but not great price. You'll be more likely to come back. (And on an unrelated note, but the business of "feeling good" reminded me: buy Target, sell Walmart--I was in the former the other day and overheard 3 teenagers: One said to the others, "you know Target is so much nicer than Walmart." One of the other's replied, "yeah, its not even the stuff, its just happier to be in here.") Mark’s comment that the pricing model may have determined the number of artists you could commit to makes sense. And maybe the way this could work now (to address people’s wider and possibly shallower interest) would be to combine getting more money from a few people (via value added services such as Peter describes) with getting less money from lots of people: by charging little enough that one doesn’t have to be very committed at all to buy: what if music were 25 cents a song? Would it be worth looking to see whether it was available somewhere else for free? Worth buying a single song rather than the whole album? I’m not sure you would sell 4 times as much of any individual song, but you might get people to spend as much or more on music in toto. On a related note, I’m not sure that business schools are correct to say that if you felt like you would have paid more for a record, then the record companies weren’t fully realizing the value of the music: in the long run it seems good to leave you feeling happy & not ripped off or even having paid a fair but not great price. You’ll be more likely to come back.

(And on an unrelated note, but the business of “feeling good” reminded me: buy Target, sell Walmart–I was in the former the other day and overheard 3 teenagers: One said to the others, “you know Target is so much nicer than Walmart.” One of the other’s replied, “yeah, its not even the stuff, its just happier to be in here.”)

]]> By: Kenny Love http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3404 Kenny Love Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:05:26 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3404 Too far gone, for too long... Too far gone, for too long…

]]> By: John http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3403 John Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:21:58 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3403 Issa, the artist formerly known as Jane Siberry, instituted a policy of "self-determined pricing" about a year ago in her online store, the only place her music is currently available: https://www.sheeba.ca/store/letterSDP.php One can choose exactly how much one wishes to pay (including nothing). Part of her expressed rationale: "Like many, I'm restless and impatient with living in a world where people are made to feel like shoplifters rather than intelligent peoples with a good sense of balance." As the statistics in the store show, most people pay the same prices that were charged before the self-determined policy. More people pay MORE than that cost than pay LESS than that cost. There is also a "patron" option, if one wishes merely to donate money to her efforts without purchasing downloads -- it was placed there at the request of fans/customers. What if the **AA just asked nicely? When offered a true, respectful choice (and no DRM) by the industry -- and maybe I'm being mind-blowingly naive here -- I'd like to think that most people wouldn't behave like thieves. Issa, the artist formerly known as Jane Siberry, instituted a policy of “self-determined pricing” about a year ago in her online store, the only place her music is currently available:

https://www.sheeba.ca/store/letterSDP.php

One can choose exactly how much one wishes to pay (including nothing). Part of her expressed rationale: “Like many, I’m restless and impatient with living in a world where people are made to feel like shoplifters rather than intelligent peoples with a good sense of balance.” As the statistics in the store show, most people pay the same prices that were charged before the self-determined policy. More people pay MORE than that cost than pay LESS than that cost. There is also a “patron” option, if one wishes merely to donate money to her efforts without purchasing downloads — it was placed there at the request of fans/customers.

What if the **AA just asked nicely? When offered a true, respectful choice (and no DRM) by the industry — and maybe I’m being mind-blowingly naive here — I’d like to think that most people wouldn’t behave like thieves.

]]> By: Mark Schultz http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3402 Mark Schultz Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:57:17 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3402 There is one community of music fans and musicians that already looks a lot like what Grant describes here--the jamband community. Jambands like the Grateful Dead and their progeny (Phish, String Cheese Incident, etc) treat their fans rather well, allowing taping and trading of concerts and generally treating fans better than most of the music industry. They charge less for concert tickets when they can, provide lots of free music releases, communicate with fans directly, and focus on making concert experiences very fulfilling, major events. In return, fans are quite devoted (Deadheads are of course legendary for their devotion) and even have social norms that support and encourage paying for commercial releases. As a result, jambands can get away with selling non-DRM protected files online. I think this model is *one* future for *part* of the music industry, especially the long tail part of it. Shameless plug (but I wont try to link): I've written about all this in a law review article about jambands and copyright law in the Berkeley Technology Law Journal. It's out there on the web, and tediously long as such things are. There is one community of music fans and musicians that already looks a lot like what Grant describes here–the jamband community. Jambands like the Grateful Dead and their progeny (Phish, String Cheese Incident, etc) treat their fans rather well, allowing taping and trading of concerts and generally treating fans better than most of the music industry. They charge less for concert tickets when they can, provide lots of free music releases, communicate with fans directly, and focus on making concert experiences very fulfilling, major events. In return, fans are quite devoted (Deadheads are of course legendary for their devotion) and even have social norms that support and encourage paying for commercial releases. As a result, jambands can get away with selling non-DRM protected files online. I think this model is *one* future for *part* of the music industry, especially the long tail part of it. Shameless plug (but I wont try to link): I’ve written about all this in a law review article about jambands and copyright law in the Berkeley Technology Law Journal. It’s out there on the web, and tediously long as such things are.

]]> By: Peter http://cultureby.com/2007/01/patrons_or_pira.html/comment-page-1#comment-3401 Peter Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:35:48 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=548#comment-3401 Mark's comment leads me to think a Linux business model may also be appropriate for music -- actual content free to download to everyone, with some people paying for after-sales and other value-added services. For example, I would pay extra (as presumably would Grant) to receive robust CD cases and booklets printed using a legible font-size. (It is typical of the music industry that the main market for classical music is middle-aged and over, yet the CD booklets are written for people with a teenager's vision!) Mark’s comment leads me to think a Linux business model may also be appropriate for music — actual content free to download to everyone, with some people paying for after-sales and other value-added services. For example, I would pay extra (as presumably would Grant) to receive robust CD cases and booklets printed using a legible font-size. (It is typical of the music industry that the main market for classical music is middle-aged and over, yet the CD booklets are written for people with a teenager’s vision!)

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