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	<title>Comments on: 7 Branding lessons from the Dove campaign</title>
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	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
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		<title>By: Susan Kramer</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3105</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Kramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3105</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you saying that about 8% of women feel beautiful by doing advertising for companies like Nike, etc... I&#039;m talking about plus size women. Tyra Banks is having a top model contest on her show, using plus size women. Please e-mail me back and let me know. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you saying that about 8% of women feel beautiful by doing advertising for companies like Nike, etc&#8230; I&#39;m talking about plus size women. Tyra Banks is having a top model contest on her show, using plus size women. Please e-mail me back and let me know. </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Denny</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3104</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Denny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3104</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Grant: this was indeed a terrific &#039;feel good&#039; campaign that has done them well. I would have jumped into the argument that gugoda related had I read this earlier -- I&#039;m not on the inside of this campaign at all, but I seriously doubt that this happened with any carefully laid, culturally monitoring, timing sensitive stealth. The German agency that ran a little campaign that tapped a larger vein that caused the US agency to take it and run with it sounds a whole lot more authentic. The fact is that sometimes (good) accidents happen, and this was probably one of them. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sure, UNI knew there were disenfranchised consumers who wanted &#039;in&#039;, sure they knew few thought of themselves as beautiful, and to be sure, none of the models used could possibly be confused with &#039;ugly&#039;. All the same, I&#039;d bet this was more haphazard than anyone would like to admit. I could be wrong! &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thanks -- excellent blog, by the way -- &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant: this was indeed a terrific &#39;feel good&#39; campaign that has done them well. I would have jumped into the argument that gugoda related had I read this earlier &#8212; I&#39;m not on the inside of this campaign at all, but I seriously doubt that this happened with any carefully laid, culturally monitoring, timing sensitive stealth. The German agency that ran a little campaign that tapped a larger vein that caused the US agency to take it and run with it sounds a whole lot more authentic. The fact is that sometimes (good) accidents happen, and this was probably one of them. </p>
<p>Sure, UNI knew there were disenfranchised consumers who wanted &#39;in&#39;, sure they knew few thought of themselves as beautiful, and to be sure, none of the models used could possibly be confused with &#39;ugly&#39;. All the same, I&#39;d bet this was more haphazard than anyone would like to admit. I could be wrong! </p>
<p>Thanks &#8212; excellent blog, by the way &#8212; </p>
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		<title>By: John Grant</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3103</link>
		<dc:creator>John Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 07:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3103</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Grant&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Actually what I gather really happened was they ran a single (thigh firming) print ad in germany featuring an outsized model (because they need to have the ample thighs which would benefit from the product). The ad triggered a lot of positive PR about using realistic women rather than size zero models. They took this feedback and ran with it. It was only after they had accidently discovered this that they did that survey, hired Susie Orbach to advise etc.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are several other lessons in that:&lt;br /&gt;
1. be lucky&lt;br /&gt;
2. learn from your accidents&lt;br /&gt;
3. establish ways your audience/public/media can lead your strategy&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They were better organised to capitalise on this/understand it for all the reasons you describe &amp; the timing was perfect. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also the execution was very important; its not that they were the first to point to the attractriveness of real women - but the presentation of this thought was usually in realistic unstylised settings (akin to &#039;reality TV&#039;) whereas the Dove art direction (white background, model presented like the statue of a goddesss...) which was present in that very first ad signified BEAUTY in a classical (Chanel) mode.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All in all, isnt the messy ambiguous story of this and most hits more Cate Blanchett than we&#039;d care to admit?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Grant</p>
<p>Actually what I gather really happened was they ran a single (thigh firming) print ad in germany featuring an outsized model (because they need to have the ample thighs which would benefit from the product). The ad triggered a lot of positive PR about using realistic women rather than size zero models. They took this feedback and ran with it. It was only after they had accidently discovered this that they did that survey, hired Susie Orbach to advise etc.</p>
<p>There are several other lessons in that:<br />
1. be lucky<br />
2. learn from your accidents<br />
3. establish ways your audience/public/media can lead your strategy</p>
<p>They were better organised to capitalise on this/understand it for all the reasons you describe &amp; the timing was perfect. </p>
<p>Also the execution was very important; its not that they were the first to point to the attractriveness of real women &#8211; but the presentation of this thought was usually in realistic unstylised settings (akin to &#39;reality TV&#39;) whereas the Dove art direction (white background, model presented like the statue of a goddesss&#8230;) which was present in that very first ad signified BEAUTY in a classical (Chanel) mode.</p>
<p>All in all, isnt the messy ambiguous story of this and most hits more Cate Blanchett than we&#39;d care to admit?</p>
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		<title>By: gugoda</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>gugoda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 07:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All this has been very fascinating reading indeed.&lt;br /&gt;
As the former lead planner on Dove hair care and deodorant in the US for almost three years, professional decorum requires that I tread lightly here, but I have the benefit of an insider&#039;s perspective on much that has been commented upon in response to Grant&#039;s original post.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here are some aspects to share with you all which may put a different spin on the interpretation:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1.  It&#039;s fair to say that unilever and its roster agency where cognizent of the strategic need to tap a cultural vein in order to drive the ambitious goal to make Dove a master brand within Unilever brand portfolio.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2.  The &#039;discovery&#039; path was not nearly as systematic as (at least I feel) is suggested in Grant&#039;s post.  As it is in the majority of cases, it was a confluence of the right kinds of minds working on the business at a specific point in time that lead to the ultimate realization of territory for a brand whose time had come&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;3.  I&#039;d question the linearity of the thinking and specifically the role of the beauty survey when positioned as the precipitating catalyst to an emergence of brand territory of new found opportunity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;4.  As the Dove hair care planner completely uninvolved in the overall masterbrand strategic development, I can tell you that - in engaging women at the same time the brand strategy was being minted, in frank discussions about their relationship with beauty in hair and the role that the highly familiar  beauty conventions and stereotypes play - it was not that hard to unearth a sense of alienation and opportunity.  That while women acknowledged that the category&#039;s definition of beautiful hair was one they willingly aspired to and could achieve with the requisite effort, it was not which they felt deep down left room or space for them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;5.  While one may argue that the desire for &#039;inclusion&#039; was latent potential that encouraged people&#039;s bond to the brand (&quot;hey I was excluded from the club before but now this is a club I can belong to...&quot;) far more emotionally potent was the recognition of the innate potential that each woman has in the body/skin/hair she was born with done not in an forced acceptance/acquiesing way but in a celebratory manner.   No brand had acknowledged this potential before and first mover advantage gave Dove a tremendous head-start.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;6.  The notion of &#039;real beauty&#039; had been at the heart of brand&#039;s architecture for some time but it had no meaning, or at least there was no understanding among the collective brand team at client and agency as to the significance this idea had to galvanize the brand.   It took a convergence of the right people with the serendipity of the prevailing climate of openness to challenging restrictive beauty ideas to make it possible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll stop at this juncture as this blog topic is now two days old, which makes its currency as fresh as yesterday&#039;s news.  &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this has been very fascinating reading indeed.<br />
As the former lead planner on Dove hair care and deodorant in the US for almost three years, professional decorum requires that I tread lightly here, but I have the benefit of an insider&#39;s perspective on much that has been commented upon in response to Grant&#39;s original post.</p>
<p>Here are some aspects to share with you all which may put a different spin on the interpretation:</p>
<p>1.  It&#39;s fair to say that unilever and its roster agency where cognizent of the strategic need to tap a cultural vein in order to drive the ambitious goal to make Dove a master brand within Unilever brand portfolio.</p>
<p>2.  The &#39;discovery&#39; path was not nearly as systematic as (at least I feel) is suggested in Grant&#39;s post.  As it is in the majority of cases, it was a confluence of the right kinds of minds working on the business at a specific point in time that lead to the ultimate realization of territory for a brand whose time had come</p>
<p>3.  I&#39;d question the linearity of the thinking and specifically the role of the beauty survey when positioned as the precipitating catalyst to an emergence of brand territory of new found opportunity.</p>
<p>4.  As the Dove hair care planner completely uninvolved in the overall masterbrand strategic development, I can tell you that &#8211; in engaging women at the same time the brand strategy was being minted, in frank discussions about their relationship with beauty in hair and the role that the highly familiar  beauty conventions and stereotypes play &#8211; it was not that hard to unearth a sense of alienation and opportunity.  That while women acknowledged that the category&#39;s definition of beautiful hair was one they willingly aspired to and could achieve with the requisite effort, it was not which they felt deep down left room or space for them.</p>
<p>5.  While one may argue that the desire for &#39;inclusion&#39; was latent potential that encouraged people&#39;s bond to the brand (&quot;hey I was excluded from the club before but now this is a club I can belong to&#8230;&quot;) far more emotionally potent was the recognition of the innate potential that each woman has in the body/skin/hair she was born with done not in an forced acceptance/acquiesing way but in a celebratory manner.   No brand had acknowledged this potential before and first mover advantage gave Dove a tremendous head-start.</p>
<p>6.  The notion of &#39;real beauty&#39; had been at the heart of brand&#39;s architecture for some time but it had no meaning, or at least there was no understanding among the collective brand team at client and agency as to the significance this idea had to galvanize the brand.   It took a convergence of the right people with the serendipity of the prevailing climate of openness to challenging restrictive beauty ideas to make it possible.</p>
<p>I&#39;ll stop at this juncture as this blog topic is now two days old, which makes its currency as fresh as yesterday&#39;s news.  </p>
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		<title>By: gugoda</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3101</link>
		<dc:creator>gugoda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 07:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3101</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All this has been very fascinating reading indeed.&lt;br /&gt;
As the former lead planner on Dove hair care and deodorant in the US for almost three years, professional decorum requires that I tread lightly here, but I have the benefit of an insider&#039;s perspective on much that has been commented upon in response to Grant&#039;s original post.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here are some aspects to share with you all which may put a different spin on the interpretation:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1.  It&#039;s fair to say that unilever and its roster agency where cognizent of the strategic need to tap a cultural vein in order to drive the ambitious goal to make Dove a master brand within Unilever brand portfolio.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2.  The &#039;discovery&#039; path was not nearly as systematic as (at least I feel) is suggested in Grant&#039;s post.  As it is in the majority of cases, it was a confluence of the right kinds of minds working on the business at a specific point in time that lead to the ultimate realization of territory for a brand whose time had come&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;3.  I&#039;d question the linearity of the thinking and specifically the role of the beauty survey when positioned as the precipitating catalyst to an emergence of brand territory of new found opportunity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;4.  As the Dove hair care planner completely uninvolved in the overall masterbrand strategic development, I can tell you that - in engaging women at the same time the brand strategy was being minted, in frank discussions about their relationship with beauty in hair and the role that the highly familiar  beauty conventions and stereotypes play - it was not that hard to unearth a sense of alienation and opportunity.  That while women acknowledged that the category&#039;s definition of beautiful hair was one they willingly aspired to and could achieve with the requisite effort, it was not which they felt deep down left room or space for them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;5.  While one may argue that the desire for &#039;inclusion&#039; was latent potential that encouraged people&#039;s bond to the brand (&quot;hey I was excluded from the club before but now this is a club I can belong to...&quot;) far more emotionally potent was the recognition of the innate potential that each woman has in the body/skin/hair she was born with done not in an forced acceptance/acquiesing way but in a celebratory manner.   No brand had acknowledged this potential before and first mover advantage gave Dove a tremendous head-start.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;6.  The notion of &#039;real beauty&#039; had been at the heart of brand&#039;s architecture for some time but it had no meaning, or at least there was no understanding among the collective brand team at client and agency as to the significance this idea had to galvanize the brand.   It took a convergence of the right people with the serendipity of the prevailing climate of openness to challenging restrictive beauty ideas to make it possible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll stop at this juncture as this blog topic is now two days old, which makes its currency as fresh as yesterday&#039;s news.  &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this has been very fascinating reading indeed.<br />
As the former lead planner on Dove hair care and deodorant in the US for almost three years, professional decorum requires that I tread lightly here, but I have the benefit of an insider&#39;s perspective on much that has been commented upon in response to Grant&#39;s original post.</p>
<p>Here are some aspects to share with you all which may put a different spin on the interpretation:</p>
<p>1.  It&#39;s fair to say that unilever and its roster agency where cognizent of the strategic need to tap a cultural vein in order to drive the ambitious goal to make Dove a master brand within Unilever brand portfolio.</p>
<p>2.  The &#39;discovery&#39; path was not nearly as systematic as (at least I feel) is suggested in Grant&#39;s post.  As it is in the majority of cases, it was a confluence of the right kinds of minds working on the business at a specific point in time that lead to the ultimate realization of territory for a brand whose time had come</p>
<p>3.  I&#39;d question the linearity of the thinking and specifically the role of the beauty survey when positioned as the precipitating catalyst to an emergence of brand territory of new found opportunity.</p>
<p>4.  As the Dove hair care planner completely uninvolved in the overall masterbrand strategic development, I can tell you that &#8211; in engaging women at the same time the brand strategy was being minted, in frank discussions about their relationship with beauty in hair and the role that the highly familiar  beauty conventions and stereotypes play &#8211; it was not that hard to unearth a sense of alienation and opportunity.  That while women acknowledged that the category&#39;s definition of beautiful hair was one they willingly aspired to and could achieve with the requisite effort, it was not which they felt deep down left room or space for them.</p>
<p>5.  While one may argue that the desire for &#39;inclusion&#39; was latent potential that encouraged people&#39;s bond to the brand (&quot;hey I was excluded from the club before but now this is a club I can belong to&#8230;&quot;) far more emotionally potent was the recognition of the innate potential that each woman has in the body/skin/hair she was born with done not in an forced acceptance/acquiesing way but in a celebratory manner.   No brand had acknowledged this potential before and first mover advantage gave Dove a tremendous head-start.</p>
<p>6.  The notion of &#39;real beauty&#39; had been at the heart of brand&#39;s architecture for some time but it had no meaning, or at least there was no understanding among the collective brand team at client and agency as to the significance this idea had to galvanize the brand.   It took a convergence of the right people with the serendipity of the prevailing climate of openness to challenging restrictive beauty ideas to make it possible.</p>
<p>I&#39;ll stop at this juncture as this blog topic is now two days old, which makes its currency as fresh as yesterday&#39;s news.  </p>
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		<title>By: jens</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3100</link>
		<dc:creator>jens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;1. create an organizational culture that is based on trust and that encourages risk (variety)&lt;br /&gt;
2. have a top-management with a feeling for cultural shifts and potential fit (focus)&lt;br /&gt;
3. don&#039;t talk! - execute! (action)&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. create an organizational culture that is based on trust and that encourages risk (variety)<br />
2. have a top-management with a feeling for cultural shifts and potential fit (focus)<br />
3. don&#39;t talk! &#8211; execute! (action)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3099</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3099</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I always thought this campaign of Dove&#039;s was a bit disingenuous; reinforcing traditional standards of beauty while purporting to redefine those standards.  All of the women used are, if not traditionally beautiful, at least traditionally attractive.  Some are quite beautiful but have one trait not commonly thought of as desirable, such as excess weight or age (isn&#039;t nearly all age excess!).  Said another way, Dove takes no chances that we&#039;ll wince when we see one of their models, because they all exhibit predominantly &quot;beautiful&quot; attributes, while sometimes also exhibiting one less desirable, but not overwhelmingly so, attribute.  I feel a bit used and preached to when I see it.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought this campaign of Dove&#39;s was a bit disingenuous; reinforcing traditional standards of beauty while purporting to redefine those standards.  All of the women used are, if not traditionally beautiful, at least traditionally attractive.  Some are quite beautiful but have one trait not commonly thought of as desirable, such as excess weight or age (isn&#39;t nearly all age excess!).  Said another way, Dove takes no chances that we&#39;ll wince when we see one of their models, because they all exhibit predominantly &quot;beautiful&quot; attributes, while sometimes also exhibiting one less desirable, but not overwhelmingly so, attribute.  I feel a bit used and preached to when I see it.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3098</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3098</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The obvious counterattack is for rivals to imply that Dove is for pedestrian, overweight people, as compared to their stylish, with-it stuff. It can be done by implication, without mentioning Dove at all. &quot;Don&#039;t settle for being the caterpillar you appear to be. Spread your wings and bring out your true beauty with ----&quot; would be the basic idea, although that particular phrasing is execrable ad copy (worth what you paid for it).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Back in the 1970s, looking &quot;natural&quot; was the big thing in cosmetics. (Rhoda Morgenstern even joked about it on the Mary Tyler Moore show.) By 1981, anyone pitching &quot;natural&quot; was perceived as &quot;dumpy&quot; and &quot;no fun.&quot; It was time for costuming and aritificiality.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The obvious counterattack is for rivals to imply that Dove is for pedestrian, overweight people, as compared to their stylish, with-it stuff. It can be done by implication, without mentioning Dove at all. &quot;Don&#39;t settle for being the caterpillar you appear to be. Spread your wings and bring out your true beauty with &#8212;-&quot; would be the basic idea, although that particular phrasing is execrable ad copy (worth what you paid for it).</p>
<p>Back in the 1970s, looking &quot;natural&quot; was the big thing in cosmetics. (Rhoda Morgenstern even joked about it on the Mary Tyler Moore show.) By 1981, anyone pitching &quot;natural&quot; was perceived as &quot;dumpy&quot; and &quot;no fun.&quot; It was time for costuming and aritificiality.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Cotton</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2007/02/7_branding_less.html/comment-page-1#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Cotton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grantmccracken.com/cco/http:/grantmccracken/page-title#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Grant,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nice list.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You could add...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;8. BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO TAKE RISKS&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Unilever took a lot of risks- please consider they also make Calvin Klein fragrances.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ed&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant,</p>
<p>Nice list.</p>
<p>You could add&#8230;</p>
<p>8. BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO TAKE RISKS</p>
<p>Unilever took a lot of risks- please consider they also make Calvin Klein fragrances.</p>
<p>Ed</p>
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