Comments on: Lil Wayne: prince of the gift economy http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics Wed, 23 May 2012 20:32:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: pnautilus http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1534 pnautilus Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:54:24 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1534 Being at the end of the comment list, I'll make this short and sweet. The best example of a "gift" economy model with a heavy dose of commercial reality is Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. I can't but feel a little sullied after every episode, knowing that this "goodwill," is much more than product placement. Sears, and Ford, and Kenmore, and Thomasville (and the rest, ad nauseum) have created a space in which their products are shown in the best possible light, as charitable gifts. Not promotions, or prizes, but charitable gifts, out of the goodness of their heart. Granted, this is not a gift on the scale of Lil Wayne's experiment, but it does seem to go along way, especially for those who love Ford and capital "A" America! in showing the world how benevolent these companies are. And as day follows night, if they're giving is good, so too must be their product offering. It's the illusion of the gift that is the key to the economy of the gift! Being at the end of the comment list, I’ll make this short and sweet. The best example of a “gift” economy model with a heavy dose of commercial reality is Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. I can’t but feel a little sullied after every episode, knowing that this “goodwill,” is much more than product placement. Sears, and Ford, and Kenmore, and Thomasville (and the rest, ad nauseum) have created a space in which their products are shown in the best possible light, as charitable gifts. Not promotions, or prizes, but charitable gifts, out of the goodness of their heart. Granted, this is not a gift on the scale of Lil Wayne’s experiment, but it does seem to go along way, especially for those who love Ford and capital “A” America! in showing the world how benevolent these companies are. And as day follows night, if they’re giving is good, so too must be their product offering. It’s the illusion of the gift that is the key to the economy of the gift!

]]> By: Professor Coldheart http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1533 Professor Coldheart Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:36:03 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1533 Grant, A friend directed me here after I asked in my own weblog if anyone could explain the appeal of Lil Wayne. I've listened to as many songs of his as I could find online and stomach - "Lollipop," "Go DJ" and, at your suggestion, "A Milli." And I just don't see what the fuss is about. Even limiting ourselves to mainstream rappers alone, I can think of half a dozen rappers with better flow, rhymes and production values. Chamillionaire. Yung Joc. People who haven't made hit albums in years have a fresher sound than this guy. I don't mean to call you out on your fandom - if you like Lil Wayne, that's fine and all. I just do not understand what people get excited over. What's the big deal? Help me out here. Grant,

A friend directed me here after I asked in my own weblog if anyone could explain the appeal of Lil Wayne.

I’ve listened to as many songs of his as I could find online and stomach – “Lollipop,” “Go DJ” and, at your suggestion, “A Milli.” And I just don’t see what the fuss is about.

Even limiting ourselves to mainstream rappers alone, I can think of half a dozen rappers with better flow, rhymes and production values. Chamillionaire. Yung Joc. People who haven’t made hit albums in years have a fresher sound than this guy.

I don’t mean to call you out on your fandom – if you like Lil Wayne, that’s fine and all. I just do not understand what people get excited over.

What’s the big deal? Help me out here.

]]> By: Daniel Rosenblatt http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1532 Daniel Rosenblatt Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:58:20 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1532 I wonder if this is not a new gift economy, but something like the old one: that is, if part of why people pay for the album is that they feel some sort of obligation to reciprocate for all the stuff Lil Wayne has thrown out there. If there are universal human moral principles then the obligation to give back what you get (whether in the form of revenge or counter-gift) is surely one of them. In Sahlins's terms this would be more like balanced reciprocity than generalized exchange, both in terms of its ideology and in terms of the social distance implied/constituted between Lil Wayne and fans: part of a community but not immediate family.It has its problems as an economic model (predictability would be a big one), but it may be one that is (in many instances) hard to avoid for something like the movies industry. The saying "information wants to be free" is best understood as fact, not hippie ideology: information "wants" to be free because someone who has it can give it away without losing it (indeed, they will probably gain props/gratitude/prestige). This is especially true when the medium of information is essentially free, as with digital info. Attempts to stop sharing come across as a form of "negative reciprocity" in this context, and defeating them becomes a goal in and of itself. I wonder if this is not a new gift economy, but something like the old one: that is, if part of why people pay for the album is that they feel some sort of obligation to reciprocate for all the stuff Lil Wayne has thrown out there. If there are universal human moral principles then the obligation to give back what you get (whether in the form of revenge or counter-gift) is surely one of them. In Sahlins’s terms this would be more like balanced reciprocity than generalized exchange, both in terms of its ideology and in terms of the social distance implied/constituted between Lil Wayne and fans: part of a community but not immediate family.It has its problems as an economic model (predictability would be a big one), but it may be one that is (in many instances) hard to avoid for something like the movies industry. The saying “information wants to be free” is best understood as fact, not hippie ideology: information “wants” to be free because someone who has it can give it away without losing it (indeed, they will probably gain props/gratitude/prestige). This is especially true when the medium of information is essentially free, as with digital info. Attempts to stop sharing come across as a form of “negative reciprocity” in this context, and defeating them becomes a goal in and of itself.

]]> By: keith brown http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1531 keith brown Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:33:25 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1531 The gift economy model has come at a time when the record labels, and even the supporting media outlets, have very little credibility with young music consumers. If Lil Wayne wants an endorsement from the people who matter most (his potential public) then he has to bypass the traditional approaches and address the public directly, giving away free content on the Internet. (Britain's Artic Monkeys is often credited with pioneering this technique a couple of years ago.) Despite a soft home improvement sector, the aluminum siding business is more viable in 2008 than the record business. More importantly, Lil Wayne's raw materials are not costly, the R&D process is probably obsessive in his case, and the distribution cost of Lil Wayne's music is virtually free. My point is that if I were you, I wouldn't wait for free aluminum siding on the Internet. The gift economy model has come at a time when the record labels, and even the supporting media outlets, have very little credibility with young music consumers.
If Lil Wayne wants an endorsement from the people who matter most (his potential public) then he has to bypass the traditional approaches and address the public directly, giving away free content on the Internet. (Britain’s Artic Monkeys is often credited with pioneering this technique a couple of years ago.)
Despite a soft home improvement sector, the aluminum siding business is more viable in 2008 than the record business. More importantly, Lil Wayne’s raw materials are not costly, the R&D process is probably obsessive in his case, and the distribution cost of Lil Wayne’s music is virtually free.
My point is that if I were you, I wouldn’t wait for free aluminum siding on the Internet.

]]> By: peter http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1530 peter Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:30:35 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1530 Grant -- A couple of related references I'd recommend. First is the fine book by Steven Weber on the open source movement, "The Success of Open Source" (Harvard University Press, 2004). http://www.amazon.com/Success-Open-Source-Steven-Weber/dp/0674012925 I think that a large impetus for a modern gift-economy has come from the open source software movement, and the motivations & drivers there I suspect are very different to those in other domains, such as music. For example, computer hardware and software creation has been a collaborative effort since at least the time of Charles Babbage in the 19th century, and this collaborative culture of giving-and-receiving (for help, for code, for inputs) is one way in which young computer engineers acquire the skills of their profession. I think this culture is very different to other knowledge cultures, such as law or medicine, which IME are much more competitive than computing. In addition, most modern corporate software requires customization to the particular business, technical or other circumstances of each company for its potential benefits to be realized. But full customization of software is usually only possible if the programmers doing the installation & deployment have access to the source code. The main driver of open source software is not New Age notions of sharing (on the supply-side), but hard commercial requirements for full access to source code (on the demand-side). This driver has found expression in interesting ways: Fortune 500 companies now routinely ask their telecommunications providers for direct access to the telco's switches, for instance (to enable faster provision of changing requirements). Another paper of relevance is this politico-legal analysis: Yochai Benkler [2004]: "Sharing nicely: on shareable goods and the emergence of sharing as a modality of economic production." Yale Law Journal, vol. 114, pp. 273-358 (November 2004). Benkler construes open source as a new mode of production, distinct from price-based (capitalist) and state-based (communist) modes. I'm not sure I'm convinced, but his argument is worth considering. Grant –

A couple of related references I’d recommend. First is the fine book by Steven Weber on the open source movement, “The Success of Open Source” (Harvard University Press, 2004).

http://www.amazon.com/Success-Open-Source-Steven-Weber/dp/0674012925

I think that a large impetus for a modern gift-economy has come from the open source software movement, and the motivations & drivers there I suspect are very different to those in other domains, such as music. For example, computer hardware and software creation has been a collaborative effort since at least the time of Charles Babbage in the 19th century, and this collaborative culture of giving-and-receiving (for help, for code, for inputs) is one way in which young computer engineers acquire the skills of their profession. I think this culture is very different to other knowledge cultures, such as law or medicine, which IME are much more competitive than computing.

In addition, most modern corporate software requires customization to the particular business, technical or other circumstances of each company for its potential benefits to be realized. But full customization of software is usually only possible if the programmers doing the installation & deployment have access to the source code. The main driver of open source software is not New Age notions of sharing (on the supply-side), but hard commercial requirements for full access to source code (on the demand-side). This driver has found expression in interesting ways: Fortune 500 companies now routinely ask their telecommunications providers for direct access to the telco’s switches, for instance (to enable faster provision of changing requirements).

Another paper of relevance is this politico-legal analysis:

Yochai Benkler [2004]: “Sharing nicely: on shareable goods and the emergence of sharing as a modality of economic production.” Yale Law Journal, vol. 114, pp. 273-358 (November 2004).

Benkler construes open source as a new mode of production, distinct from price-based (capitalist) and state-based (communist) modes. I’m not sure I’m convinced, but his argument is worth considering.

]]> By: Steve Cunningham http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1529 Steve Cunningham Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:35:16 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1529 Grant - I've got what is admittedly a sample of one (me). But perhaps two other looks at the issue for discussion. I'm both a music lover and a musician, and here's what I see from both sides of the table. Music lover - when you find an artist that you fall in love with you'll do everything your power to get your hands on ANYTHING the artist has created (for me, it's not Lil Wayne, but many others). Especially when you've made that artist part of your identity. In fact, you'll pay any amount to get your hands on the stuff, from free to seemingly astronomical figures. SO, if you're the best rapper in the world, its quite likely that you have a long list of those people willing to take in both the free stuff and pay for the "official" albums. Perhaps Lil Wayne realizes this. Musician - musicians (myself and Lil Wayne included) have an insatiable desire to create. And one album every two years (followed by a relentless touring schedule) probably doesn't leave your need to create particularly fulfilled. I think most musicians would tell you that they feel this way, but that it's "part of the business". And by pounding out the tunes like he has been doing, he's adding to the mystique surrounding him - a modern day Mozart if you will. Perhaps Lil Wayne realizes that he can't accomplish this by playing by the old rules. Without having read any of the books/articles from your references, I have absolutely no idea how that fits in with your model. But just thought I'd throw my two cents into the ring. Keep up the great work - I love reading your stuff! Grant – I’ve got what is admittedly a sample of one (me). But perhaps two other looks at the issue for discussion. I’m both a music lover and a musician, and here’s what I see from both sides of the table.

Music lover – when you find an artist that you fall in love with you’ll do everything your power to get your hands on ANYTHING the artist has created (for me, it’s not Lil Wayne, but many others). Especially when you’ve made that artist part of your identity. In fact, you’ll pay any amount to get your hands on the stuff, from free to seemingly astronomical figures. SO, if you’re the best rapper in the world, its quite likely that you have a long list of those people willing to take in both the free stuff and pay for the “official” albums. Perhaps Lil Wayne realizes this.

Musician – musicians (myself and Lil Wayne included) have an insatiable desire to create. And one album every two years (followed by a relentless touring schedule) probably doesn’t leave your need to create particularly fulfilled. I think most musicians would tell you that they feel this way, but that it’s “part of the business”. And by pounding out the tunes like he has been doing, he’s adding to the mystique surrounding him – a modern day Mozart if you will. Perhaps Lil Wayne realizes that he can’t accomplish this by playing by the old rules.

Without having read any of the books/articles from your references, I have absolutely no idea how that fits in with your model. But just thought I’d throw my two cents into the ring.

Keep up the great work – I love reading your stuff!

]]> By: Chris Brogan... http://cultureby.com/2008/07/lil-wayne-princ.html/comment-page-1#comment-1528 Chris Brogan... Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:34:09 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=250#comment-1528 Very thoughtful post, and I'm really excited to hear the story. I know Lil Wayne, and know a few of his songs, but wasn't aware of his body of work. As he follows a very similar model to me (give tons away and hope for value on the parts where you ask for money), I'm excited to see the comparison. By the way, long time reader, first time commenter. :) Very thoughtful post, and I’m really excited to hear the story. I know Lil Wayne, and know a few of his songs, but wasn’t aware of his body of work. As he follows a very similar model to me (give tons away and hope for value on the parts where you ask for money), I’m excited to see the comparison.

By the way, long time reader, first time commenter. :)

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