Comments on: What happened to our magnetic north? on the decline of the avant garde http://cultureby.com/2008/08/the-decline-of.html This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anthrodiva http://cultureby.com/2008/08/the-decline-of.html/comment-page-1#comment-1406 Anthrodiva Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:37:21 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=230#comment-1406 Aren't millenials no more than 13 years old, max? I'm pretty sure my seven year old is a millenial...I doubt we can make any assumptions about them till about 2015... Aren’t millenials no more than 13 years old, max? I’m pretty sure my seven year old is a millenial…I doubt we can make any assumptions about them till about 2015…

]]> By: JT http://cultureby.com/2008/08/the-decline-of.html/comment-page-1#comment-1405 JT Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:33:56 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=230#comment-1405 Tom, I disagree: Although the 'rebel' stance may not be endemic to artistic endeavors, the artisan class--painters, sculptors, poets, musicians, blah-blah--always remained distinct, if not diametrically opposed to, the others. As these class barriers erode, so does the status of a class dedicated to making art. We are becoming both producers and consumers. Tom, I disagree: Although the ‘rebel’ stance may not be endemic to artistic endeavors, the artisan class–painters, sculptors, poets, musicians, blah-blah–always remained distinct, if not diametrically opposed to, the others. As these class barriers erode, so does the status of a class dedicated to making art. We are becoming both producers and consumers.

]]> By: Tom http://cultureby.com/2008/08/the-decline-of.html/comment-page-1#comment-1404 Tom Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:36:11 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=230#comment-1404 "Certain fundamentals of the musical identity are now at issue." I think this brush sweeps too broadly. Certain fundamentals of the ROCK musical identity (and pop, to some extent) are now at issue. And even there it's not "musical identity," really. It's cultural. There's nothing in the creative process -- in the ground-level, nuts-and-bolts process of generating art -- that is endemically anti-establishment. There's no intrinsic insider-outsider dichotomy to the act of conjuring a melody and placing it over chords and a rhythm. Music exists not because certain cavemen felt alienated from their group and needed a way to express their discontent; music exists because human beings like sounds. There's a lot more to all this than the half-century since Elvis Presley walked into a recording studio. So to answer your question, "Does (creativity) have to come from a contradiction between insiders and outsiders?": No, it doesn't. “Certain fundamentals of the musical identity are now at issue.”

I think this brush sweeps too broadly. Certain fundamentals of the ROCK musical identity (and pop, to some extent) are now at issue. And even there it’s not “musical identity,” really. It’s cultural.

There’s nothing in the creative process — in the ground-level, nuts-and-bolts process of generating art — that is endemically anti-establishment. There’s no intrinsic insider-outsider dichotomy to the act of conjuring a melody and placing it over chords and a rhythm. Music exists not because certain cavemen felt alienated from their group and needed a way to express their discontent; music exists because human beings like sounds.

There’s a lot more to all this than the half-century since Elvis Presley walked into a recording studio.

So to answer your question, “Does (creativity) have to come from a contradiction between insiders and outsiders?”: No, it doesn’t.

]]> By: srp http://cultureby.com/2008/08/the-decline-of.html/comment-page-1#comment-1403 srp Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:01:02 +0000 http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=230#comment-1403 Personally, I always found the avant-garde pose irritating and stupid. The best innovative artists didn't use rebellion to fuel their art. Rather, it was their aesthetic vision that placed them in opposition and forced them to be "rebels.". Andy Warhol wanted to be a businessman, not a rebel, but soup cans and Marilyn Monroe kind of pissed off the establishment. Mick Jagger was far too cold-blooded about success and too hot-blooded about grabbing everything in front of him to truly be the rebel posited in Satisfaction. I guess there were plenty of rock artists whose sensibility really focused on the thrill of transgression and flipping off various authority figures (nagging girlfriends, parents, teachers, etc.), but I can think of a zillion great, innovative rock songs that had little to do with that stuff. And even some of the good music that trafficked in rebellion is not listened to today because of that avant-garde pretension. Personally, I always found the avant-garde pose irritating and stupid. The best innovative artists didn’t use rebellion to fuel their art. Rather, it was their aesthetic vision that placed them in opposition and forced them to be “rebels.”. Andy Warhol wanted to be a businessman, not a rebel, but soup cans and Marilyn Monroe kind of pissed off the establishment. Mick Jagger was far too cold-blooded about success and too hot-blooded about grabbing everything in front of him to truly be the rebel posited in Satisfaction.

I guess there were plenty of rock artists whose sensibility really focused on the thrill of transgression and flipping off various authority figures (nagging girlfriends, parents, teachers, etc.), but I can think of a zillion great, innovative rock songs that had little to do with that stuff. And even some of the good music that trafficked in rebellion is not listened to today because of that avant-garde pretension.

]]>