<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Voice Over, Hollywood&#8217;s problem and opportunity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html</link>
	<description>This Blog Sits At the Intersection of Anthropology and Economics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 20:32:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: kayt</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1429</link>
		<dc:creator>kayt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1429</guid>
		<description>my problem with this line of logic is that it can only work for a little while you can only take the details of the tenth bank heist film you&#039;ve seen as read if you have seen nine others, so when they all start dropping the details new viewers wont be able to take those details as read, and a bank heist film that includes the details will be seen by the old movie critics as dated pulp and it will be a crazy box office hit because the younger viewers will love it.
aging folks are far too quick to forget what it was like to not know as much as they know now.
My class were complaining last night that there is a whole lot of election coverage they don&#039;t understand because it makes too many assumptions about knowledge that they don&#039;t have... this is a related idea.
:)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my problem with this line of logic is that it can only work for a little while you can only take the details of the tenth bank heist film you&#8217;ve seen as read if you have seen nine others, so when they all start dropping the details new viewers wont be able to take those details as read, and a bank heist film that includes the details will be seen by the old movie critics as dated pulp and it will be a crazy box office hit because the younger viewers will love it.</p>
<p>aging folks are far too quick to forget what it was like to not know as much as they know now.</p>
<p>My class were complaining last night that there is a whole lot of election coverage they don&#8217;t understand because it makes too many assumptions about knowledge that they don&#8217;t have&#8230; this is a related idea.<br />
 <img src='http://cultureby.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Foulkes</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1428</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Foulkes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1428</guid>
		<description>Darren
don&#039;t agree that voice over is only a crutch - it can cetainly be used as you&#039;ve described, but not every time.
A good recent example is Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, where the voiceover is sometimes at odds with the action and adds another layer to pay attention to rather than straightening everything out.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren</p>
<p>don&#8217;t agree that voice over is only a crutch &#8211; it can cetainly be used as you&#8217;ve described, but not every time.</p>
<p>A good recent example is Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, where the voiceover is sometimes at odds with the action and adds another layer to pay attention to rather than straightening everything out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Obs</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1427</link>
		<dc:creator>Obs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1427</guid>
		<description>Voice over is *only* acceptable when it&#039;s done by Rex Allen on behalf of a cougar.
An extra-special exception is made for Sam Elliot, because The Dude Abides.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voice over is *only* acceptable when it&#8217;s done by Rex Allen on behalf of a cougar.</p>
<p>An extra-special exception is made for Sam Elliot, because The Dude Abides.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1426</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1426</guid>
		<description>If you ask me, voice over is a crutch. It&#039;s indicative that the creators fear that the audience won&#039;t understand the film as written, and so use voice over to reinforce the events.
Watch how often voice over only occurs at the beginning and end of a film. The screenwriter want the audience to get off on the right foot, and leave the theatre with the details worked out. Generally if voice over occurs throughout a film, it&#039;s being used more expertly as a meaningful storytelling tool.
Here&#039;s a good litmus test: Ask yourself whether the voice over is essential understanding to the plot or character development. It rarely is.
That said, I do agree with your notion about &#039;taking things as rote&#039;. Smart contemporary films do this all the time--lousy ones don&#039;t. David Mamet&#039;s films offer excellent (and usually enjoyable) examples of this practice.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you ask me, voice over is a crutch. It&#8217;s indicative that the creators fear that the audience won&#8217;t understand the film as written, and so use voice over to reinforce the events.</p>
<p>Watch how often voice over only occurs at the beginning and end of a film. The screenwriter want the audience to get off on the right foot, and leave the theatre with the details worked out. Generally if voice over occurs throughout a film, it&#8217;s being used more expertly as a meaningful storytelling tool.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a good litmus test: Ask yourself whether the voice over is essential understanding to the plot or character development. It rarely is.</p>
<p>That said, I do agree with your notion about &#8216;taking things as rote&#8217;. Smart contemporary films do this all the time&#8211;lousy ones don&#8217;t. David Mamet&#8217;s films offer excellent (and usually enjoyable) examples of this practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rick Liebling</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1425</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Liebling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 12:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1425</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day it comes down to execution. VO, when done with skill can be useful, but more often than not it is used as a cheap shortcut with no added value. It too can become it&#039;s own cliche - think of the VO for every movie trailer you&#039;ve ever seen (&quot;In a world...&quot;).
VO also often assumes a certain lack of intelligence in the audience. I don&#039;t always want to know the backstory or the unseen, I&#039;d rather piece it togher myself. Some of the best movie experiences happen when you debate what really happened afterwards on the drive home.
On the larger question of &quot;as read,&quot; again, that&#039;s a quality issue to me, more than genre knowledge. You say &quot;got it&quot; during the Bank Job not because you know what&#039;s coming, but because what&#039;s coming wasn&#039;t done well. In the best genre movies you know what&#039;s happening but you still want to see it because the quality of execution is so juicy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day it comes down to execution. VO, when done with skill can be useful, but more often than not it is used as a cheap shortcut with no added value. It too can become it&#8217;s own cliche &#8211; think of the VO for every movie trailer you&#8217;ve ever seen (&#8220;In a world&#8230;&#8221;).</p>
<p>VO also often assumes a certain lack of intelligence in the audience. I don&#8217;t always want to know the backstory or the unseen, I&#8217;d rather piece it togher myself. Some of the best movie experiences happen when you debate what really happened afterwards on the drive home.</p>
<p>On the larger question of &#8220;as read,&#8221; again, that&#8217;s a quality issue to me, more than genre knowledge. You say &#8220;got it&#8221; during the Bank Job not because you know what&#8217;s coming, but because what&#8217;s coming wasn&#8217;t done well. In the best genre movies you know what&#8217;s happening but you still want to see it because the quality of execution is so juicy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: srp</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1424</link>
		<dc:creator>srp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1424</guid>
		<description>James: Your attitude toward VO is very common among the critics, but I have never understood it. Think about GoodFellas, where Ray Liotta&#039;s VO drives the story, the setting, and helps us understand the character. Or Casino. (I will admit that I even preferred the VO-laden studio cut of Blade Runner over the artsier Scott version.) If nothing else, VO can avoid ridiculous expository conversations among characters that should never happen because both parties already know about what they&#039;re &quot;discussing.&quot; I love Burn Notice, and the use of VO there is brilliant.
Grant: I agree that as we learn a genre, we can handle a lot of &quot;data compression&quot;--just tell me how this version differs from the template, since I already know the template. Of course, this assumes that we don&#039;t enjoy recapitulation of the template even when we already know it, and making this recapitulation enjoyable and somehow still fresh is a critical point for the skilled genre practitioner.
I would take this point about data compression even further: It should be possible to tell huge amounts of story, including development of characters, in relatively short run-times by leaving out intermediate scenes and skipping ahead. The audience knows what would have inevitably happened in between what is shown. A good example where this was done is the beginning of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle, where a fairly complicated backstory is established in a couple of minutes. I wonder what could be done if that pacing were applied to a whole movie.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James: Your attitude toward VO is very common among the critics, but I have never understood it. Think about GoodFellas, where Ray Liotta&#8217;s VO drives the story, the setting, and helps us understand the character. Or Casino. (I will admit that I even preferred the VO-laden studio cut of Blade Runner over the artsier Scott version.) If nothing else, VO can avoid ridiculous expository conversations among characters that should never happen because both parties already know about what they&#8217;re &#8220;discussing.&#8221; I love Burn Notice, and the use of VO there is brilliant.</p>
<p>Grant: I agree that as we learn a genre, we can handle a lot of &#8220;data compression&#8221;&#8211;just tell me how this version differs from the template, since I already know the template. Of course, this assumes that we don&#8217;t enjoy recapitulation of the template even when we already know it, and making this recapitulation enjoyable and somehow still fresh is a critical point for the skilled genre practitioner.</p>
<p>I would take this point about data compression even further: It should be possible to tell huge amounts of story, including development of characters, in relatively short run-times by leaving out intermediate scenes and skipping ahead. The audience knows what would have inevitably happened in between what is shown. A good example where this was done is the beginning of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle, where a fairly complicated backstory is established in a couple of minutes. I wonder what could be done if that pacing were applied to a whole movie.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1423</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1423</guid>
		<description>Two perspectives on VO:
1 - storytelling perspective
To me, most of the VO I see is a cheat. It&#039;s lazy storytelling. It&#039;s poor exposition substituting for poorer filmmaking, telling instead of showing.
As first-person narrative, which most of VO is, it fails to honor the character&#039;s perspective (instead, using the character as a stand-in for a narrator) while at the same time failing to play with the first person unreliability (misjudging others, being wrong, lying, remembering for convenience). In short: boo. VO is a hack&#039;s crutch.
2 - economic perspective
VO is easy to translate for global markets. No one sees the narrator&#039;s lips move.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two perspectives on VO:</p>
<p>1 &#8211; storytelling perspective<br />
To me, most of the VO I see is a cheat. It&#8217;s lazy storytelling. It&#8217;s poor exposition substituting for poorer filmmaking, telling instead of showing.</p>
<p>As first-person narrative, which most of VO is, it fails to honor the character&#8217;s perspective (instead, using the character as a stand-in for a narrator) while at the same time failing to play with the first person unreliability (misjudging others, being wrong, lying, remembering for convenience). In short: boo. VO is a hack&#8217;s crutch.</p>
<p>2 &#8211; economic perspective<br />
VO is easy to translate for global markets. No one sees the narrator&#8217;s lips move.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deborah M</title>
		<link>http://cultureby.com/2008/08/voice-over-holl.html/comment-page-1#comment-1422</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_culture/?p=234#comment-1422</guid>
		<description>Thanks Grant! Enjoy the McCracken emanations...Increased use of VO is linked I think to our loss of interest in concentrating, thinking deeply and making connections as we click across media and experience text (words, images, fashion, signs and symbols). VO insures that we &quot;get it&quot; - however &quot;it&quot; is intended. Frentic, insistent and irrepressible conversational uses of &quot;You know?&quot; &quot;Do you know what I mean?&quot; and more recently &quot;Does that make sense?&quot; underscore the concern that we are not getting it and that we don&#039;t know what it means, or that we are missing the core meaning. VO offers us help - just in case we missed it, were looking at the scroll, are being subjected to a secondhand cellphone conversation, are watching on a computer whose screen is filled with popping, flashing and morphing data, or can hear the relentless base line emanating unbidden from a fellow mass transit-rider&#039;s ipod. Your conjuring of Deus Ex Machina (&quot; It&#039;s the literary machinery into which we can drop human beings without much more attention to their complexity as human beings. &quot;) is wonderful here - again thanks. VO as vox ex machina? and speaking of &quot;as read&quot;, for one of the many riffs on loss of ability to &quot;read&quot;, have a look at a recent article in The Atlantic: Is Google Making Us Stupid?  What the Internet is doing to our brains by Nicholas Carr
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/google
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Grant! Enjoy the McCracken emanations&#8230;Increased use of VO is linked I think to our loss of interest in concentrating, thinking deeply and making connections as we click across media and experience text (words, images, fashion, signs and symbols). VO insures that we &#8220;get it&#8221; &#8211; however &#8220;it&#8221; is intended. Frentic, insistent and irrepressible conversational uses of &#8220;You know?&#8221; &#8220;Do you know what I mean?&#8221; and more recently &#8220;Does that make sense?&#8221; underscore the concern that we are not getting it and that we don&#8217;t know what it means, or that we are missing the core meaning. VO offers us help &#8211; just in case we missed it, were looking at the scroll, are being subjected to a secondhand cellphone conversation, are watching on a computer whose screen is filled with popping, flashing and morphing data, or can hear the relentless base line emanating unbidden from a fellow mass transit-rider&#8217;s ipod. Your conjuring of Deus Ex Machina (&#8221; It&#8217;s the literary machinery into which we can drop human beings without much more attention to their complexity as human beings. &#8220;) is wonderful here &#8211; again thanks. VO as vox ex machina? and speaking of &#8220;as read&#8221;, for one of the many riffs on loss of ability to &#8220;read&#8221;, have a look at a recent article in The Atlantic: Is Google Making Us Stupid?  What the Internet is doing to our brains by Nicholas Carr<br />
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/google" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/google</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

